Lessons for Larry - Part One of Too Many

From Slate

Ultraconservative Catholic bishop Richard Williamson apologized to the pope this week for his "imprudent remarks" concerning the Holocaust but did not recant. The bishop accepts that some Jews died in concentration camps but claims that fewer than 300,000 were killed, rather than 6 million, and he denies that the Nazis used gas chambers. To be a Holocaust denier, do you have to deny the whole thing?

No. There's no single definition of Holocaust denial or "revisionism," but scholars generally agree that it means claiming that the Nazis had no official policy to exterminate Jews, that the gas chambers are a myth, or that the figure of 6 million murdered Jews is a gross exaggeration. At the extreme, denial can mean hiding or suppressing evidence of the Holocaust by destroying gas chambers, as the Nazis did at the end of World War II, or by burning documents. But denial can also take the form of relativization—saying that, yes, the Nazis killed Jews, but the killings of Gypsies, Poles, and Jehovah's Witnesses were just as extensive.*
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David Dees is therefore a Holocaust denier. It was never in doubt, except by Larry. Although Larry claims he himself is not a Holocaust denier, he doesn't know what it means. Larry claims David Dees is not a Holocaust denier, though Dees clearly is.


Larry previously asked

"I asked you two for EVIDENCE------EVIDENCE that Dees COMPLETELY DENIES THE HOLOCAUST EVER HAPPEND. And what I mean by "COMPLETELY DENIES" is the accusation you two are making that Dees is saying NOT ONE MURDER occurred."

Larry invents a definition of Holocaust denial, then demands we prove Dees lives up to it. Else Dees can't qualify. Sorry - not the way it works. The definition is the usual definition, not the one Larry invents.

Here's David Dees denying the Holocaust, in response to an enquiry sent by Larry:

"There were precise records kept by the germans, these were stolen by the russians, then released in 1989

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v12/v12p265_Weber.html

also the red cross international after years of being allowed to visit the camps wrote their estimate of 260,000 deaths
http://musliminsuffer.wordpress.com/2007/06/07/official-records-from-international-red-cross-prove-holocaust-was-a-fraud/

and consider that only forty per cent were jewish, is that really a holocaust?

People don't want to investigate, they love the documentaries made by hollywood, 6 mil,hahaha, F em. It is another zionist scam like all the others. With no auschwitz there would have been no Israel, tell your friends to wake up."

At the link Dees gave, it says:

SIX MILLION JEWS DID NOT DIE; THE WHOLE CLAIM WAS A COMPLETE FABRICATION

A complete fabrication.....Holocaust denial. Obviously.

David Dees himself wrote that "6 million is a total fabrication to push the creation of Israel." Larry denies this is Holocaust denial. He's a denial denier? Crazy.

Dees went on to say:

I will go with the eyewitnesses who were allowed into the camps, the international red cross, they put the figures at 270,000, and records show only 40 per cent of the prisoners were jewish, do the math little babies.

http://ahmedismailibrahim.wordpress.com/2007/06/06/official-records-from-international-red-cross-prove-holocaust-was-a-fraud/

Well, there you go. Holocaust denial. Dees further jibed that

I noticed you did not debate the facts that the red cross made their announcement after volumes of studies about the holocaust, instead you say that I am not worth your time. Once day you will take the time to study the event

Dees makes use of the old, discredited claims about the ICRC.

The ICRC have completely refuted such claims. Here's what ICRC have to say about such claims:

This and similar correspondence is frequently misrepresented as the absolute death toll of the Holocaust by deniers.

The January 19, 1955 edition of Die Tat did indeed give a 300,000 figure, but this was only in reference to "Germans and German Jews" and not nationals of other countries. In a 1979 response to this pamphlet, the ICRC said that they have "never tried to compile statistics on the victims of the war", nor "certified the accuracy of the statistics produced by a third party", and state that the authors of such material have "falsified" both claims that the document originates from the ICRC and refers exclusively to Jews.

As well as in personal correspondence, the ICRC has also addressed this misrepresentation by several other means. In 1975, the ICRC wrote to the Board of Deputies of British Jews in London regarding Harwood's citations, stating:

The figures cited by the author of the booklet are based upon statistics falsely attributed to us, evidently for the purpose of giving them credibility, despite the fact that we never publish information of this kind.

—Françoise Perret , Comité International de la Croix-Rouge, to Jacob Gerwitz, August 22, 1975.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Holocaust_denial#International_Committee_of_the_Red_Cross

Additonally,

The ICRC report is very clear regarding Nazi atrocities; for instance, in page 641 of vol. 1, the report states that the Jews were "outcasts condemned by rigid racial legislation to suffer tyranny, persecution, and systematic extermination". It goes on to say "they were penned into concentration camps and ghettos, recruited for forced labor, subjected to grave brutalities and sent to death camps".

Another verbatim quote is the following (in the same page):

"During the period in September 1940, when the 'Iron Guard' supported by the Gestapo and the German SS had seized power, the Jews had been subjected to persecution and reported to death camps".

Larry and Dees quotes are taken from this page over at DFQ2