Monday, 20 June 2011

Prisonplanet/Patriot phony anti-capitalism

Prisonplanet, haters of socialism, lovers of free-trade the extreme RonPaul way, occasionally make use of leftist appeals, garbed in populist (us and them) rhetoric. It's surprising to see such contradictory messages - The Ron Paul Revoltion (pah) alongside stuff such as this:
"THE RAPE OF AMERICA...before assuming that privatization is a good thing, read on."
Sure, but Ron Paul is all for privatisation. Please get your position straight.
Greece is thinking of selling some islands. Austria is thinking of selling mountains to pay off their national debt. Cities throughout the U.S. are thinking of privatizing their parking meters.
But private property is the root of all freedom, at least according to RonPaul and co.
Privatization takes inherently governmental functions — everything from national defense to mass transit and roads — and turns them over to the control of private actors, whose goal is to extract maximum revenue while costing as little as possible.
Yes, and that's what RP wants.....he's a private sector doctor advocating private healthcare, and the privatisation of everything. Jesus, make some sense Prisonplanet, please? One or the other? That's the point - they're neither, really.
Both domestic manufacturing and taxation are opposed by the current corporate and political elites.
Rubbish - Ron Paul is against taxation - Obama is not. Lefties are not. The right in extremis is.
In Chicago, it’s the sale of parking meters to the sovereign wealth fund of Abu Dhabi. In Indiana, it’s the sale of the northern toll road to a Spanish and Australian joint venture. In Wisconsin it’s public health and food programs, in California it’s libraries.
And in Mexico it's mines. Come on guys, 2+2=4 WHAT ABOUT RONPAUL>>>>>? SILENCE.

One has to wonder what this (and MAdsen's paean to socialism) are doing at Prisonplanet, a site that usually blames socialists for the worlds ills.....indeed, the NWO is supposed to be socialism, according to Alex Jones.

It just doesn't make sense. It isn't coherent in the least.

What it is, is opportunism. It's the far-right taking leftist appeals and trying to make them their own - no matter how contradictory or lacking in coherence it is.

For example, this is the more usual position of Prisonplanet, an article criticising Pat Robertson's supposed socialism -and his support for Obama's socialism. Note the taxation thing?
Socialist policies and massive government spending, Robertson told Meeuwsen, will lead to hyperinflation. These policies will send prices skyrocketing through the stratosphere and the value of the dollar will go down the tubes.

Obama’s proposed new taxes — that is to say, taxes to be imposed by the global elite — and his socialist policies will kick this process into overdrive. Expect Obama to call for a one-world currency in order to deal with this manufactured problem.
Read separately those two articles would appeal to different people - the leftwing are sympathetic to the first article, the right to the second. Only when juxtaposed does their contradictory nature appear bloody obvious.

The upshot is, Prisonplanet/Alex Jones have no idea what they are on about. They don't really care, and they don't have to - they don't have principles. All they care about is to undermine confidence in liberal democracy. It's the same tactic the Nazis used - promise anything to anyone, criticise everything. And nobody amongst the audience at Prisonplanet notices? Alex doesn't? Rubbish - they know what they're doing.

Worth noting here that historically fascism positioned itself as "the third way" - neither capitalism nor socialism. It attacked both and in its place offered whatever the audience wanted to hear. I see the same at Prisonplanet, and the wider Troof and Patriot movement. I see it as a symptom of their fascism.

A straightforward comparison, from WIKI:
Nazi anti-socialism : The Nazis claimed that communism was dangerous to the well-being of nations because of its intention to dissolve private property, its support of class conflict, its aggression against the middle class, its hostility to small businessmen, and its atheism.[92] Nazism rejected class conflict-based socialism and economic egalitarianism, favouring instead a stratified economy with classes based on merit and talent, retaining private property, and the creation of national solidarity that transcends class distinction.

Nazi anti-capitalism: The Nazis argued that capitalism damages nations due to international finance, the economic dominance of big business, and Jewish influences within it.[92] Adolf Hitler, both in public and in private, held strong disdain for capitalism; he accused modern capitalism of holding nations ransom in the interests of a parasitic cosmopolitan rentier class.[94] He opposed free-market capitalism's profit-seeking impulses and desired an economy where community interests would be upheld.[95] He distrusted capitalism for being unreliable, due to it having an egotistic nature, and he preferred a state-directed economy.[96] On the issue of capitalist materialism, Hitler said "It may be that today gold has become the exclusive ruler of life, but the time will come when man will bow down before a higher god. Many things owe their existence solely to the longing for money and wealth, but there is very little among them whose non-existence would leave humanity any the poorer."[97] Hitler told one party leader in 1934, "The economic system of our day," referring to capitalism, "is the creation of the Jews."[96] In a discussion with Italian Fascist dictator Benito Mussolini, Hitler said that "Capitalism had run its course".[96] Hitler was disgusted by the bourgeoisie and in one conversation stated that business bourgeoisie "know nothing except their profit. 'Fatherland' is only a word for them."[98] Hitler admired Napoleon as a rolemodel for his anti-conservative, anti-capitalist, and anti-bourgeois attitudes.[99]
To Hitler, the economy must be subordinated to the interests of the Volk and its state.
Those are pretty reasonable summaries imo and I think one can see them reflected in Prisonplanet's apparently contradictory positions.

The only other viable explanation for PP's contradictions and incoherence is that they're complete idiots. Certainly possible.


Real Truth Online said...

Funny, you always say how good socialism is, then you NEVER say exactly WHY it's good. I'm all ears.

Cricket. Cricket. Silence.

the_last_name_left said...

I got tired of saying it, tbh, and I don't want to force it down anybody's throat.

There's also the thing that it's all out there already - I have nothing to add to socialism that is going to make any difference to anyone - I'm happy to leave theorising and advocacy to people far better qualified for it than myself.

Though I have in fact done quite a few blogs about socialism.....but they attract no interest, so....what's the point?

Here's some I made earlier.....

It's good stuff. Try it?

Real Truth Online said...

"I got tired of saying it, tbh, and I don't want to force it down anybody's throat."

In other words, you have no idea. That's what I thought.


the_last_name_left said...

You read all that quick.

Believe what you want, Larry.

Talisman said...
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Talisman said...
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the_last_name_left said...

Hi T

From that hard-on blog,

" I can only say that if I had to class myself as anything it would be as an Aryan National Anarchist."

WE face a conflict like no other in history.... against the evil Zionist Satanic scum that at present rule the planet through global finance, the media and wars that they create and that our children die for.

Ack - the usual Hitlerite world Jewish conspiracy.

I certainly think they're muddled in the head. And racist, of course.

As much as the dude denies he's Hitlerite National Socialist, there's really no essential difference.

"The main priority in my opinion is to defeat the Global New World Order, to do that we need all races to stand together, it needs to be a global resistance regardless of colour or race if we have any chance of success. Of course once this is achieved the chicken will come home to roost, so to speak. Then and only then can the White European homelands sort out and deal with the preservation of our race and our nations, I'm afraid to say that then and only then will anyone who stands in our way face the ultimate penalty."

So, a rainbow coalition only until Da Joooos are.....annihilated? Then watch out! lol.

Dude published the Gilad Atzmon falsehood about the dog in the rabbinical court? I didn't believe the story....I'm surprised the BBC published it. They added an update and corrected it - story is untrue.

But neither Rivero, Hard-on nor Atzmon have updated their versions to say it is a load of rubbish (and that they were dupes, and fell for it).


Sadly, the sort of stuff you noticed is very prevalent. Especially around certain circles, like patriot/conspiracism places. Unfortunately its all over the Palestinian cause too, for obvious reasons, presumably.

The good people amongst these causes need to start taking some action. They need to repudiate these people, their racism and their extremism. Nobody else can do it for them, and if they really care about their causes, they shouldn't need much persuasion. Yet they do....

I find it very worrying. Like you say, it can pass one by if one isn't really looking for it. It passed me by for a few years too, which shocked me, as I'd spent so much time reading about Nazism, WW2 etc and I'm a socialist.....I should have seen it much sooner, but I didn't.

I don't care for Gilad Atzmon at all. I keep sseeing him getting involved with and embraced by all these leftie/liberals and I grimace. I find it shocking he is tolerated in such circles - a worrying sign of how far we've gone.

the_last_name_left said...

The dog storyu reminds me of similar peddling of lies against Israel/Jews in the case of a rapist who was supposedly only charged with rape because he'd lied about Jewish when in fact he was an arab - it was claimed that this made it rape, even though the sex had been consensual.

It was spread through Rivero, and all the usual places....with claims about how "racist" it showed Israel/Jews to be.

But the whole story was a mangled and twisted version, exploited simply so as to attack Judaism. It even showed on a leftie forum I'd been at for years and years, and had been posted by someone I thought to be a good leftie. It happened around the time of the flotilla thing, and, after having had my say about all the anti-semitism I quit the forum.

Of course, the story (like the dog thing) was shocking, and it virused its way around all the blogs and opinion pieces and whatever.

When it came to clearing-up the actual story, which was far-less dramatic and far-less incriminating of Israeli justice system, no-one was much interested. Damage is done....and all based on complete rubbish.

The fake stories confirm peoples' prejudice.....but the correction, if it's ever seen, doesn't undo the prejudice. And nobody much cares....

So much for the Truthseekers.

the_last_name_left said...

Desertpeace - another blog close to Rivero - carries the stoned dog story. No surprise.

No surprise to see it hasn't been updated with the info that it's false, and that Desertpeace along with all the others was DUPED.

Desertpeace - I found they employ a sophisticated censorship there: if you are "banned", you can still comment, and your comments appear on the page along with the others.

However, a change of IP address reveals that your message did not in fact get posted. The only person whom can see it is the person using the banned IP address.

Clever and dishonest.

I've been banned from all these places. All these "1st amendment" places - lol.

They argue they are allowed to do what they like - their property. But they never use those arguments when considering the supposedly "Jewish owned media"....

These sorts of contradictions always gain my attention. Contradictions are always interesting and revealing.

the_last_name_left said...

From some blog, on the doggie -

"The fake story of the dog sentenced to be stoned to death is running as the “most viewed story” on the Daily Telegraph web site. The comments to the story on the Telegraph site include several which point out that the story is not true and that Ma’ariv has apologised for running it. However some of the commenters are ignoring these corrections and saying things like:

“Israel” is not a country, it is a temporary location got a group of religious squatters that cannot see that racism cannot endure.

Israel is a country, it’s a bit of land populated by a group of silly men with daft beards who wear black in the middle of a desert.
heck, if I had access to nuclear weapons I’d happily wipe out people who spout such gibberish: so the rest of the world. Grow up, grow out of such silly statements.

This reminds me of stories that come out of sub-Saharan Africa. That is the kind of Bozo behavior you expect from people who still live in mud huts and occasionally eat each other.
I am going to have to reconsider my opinion of Israelis.

Job done. Great. Well done BBC, Telegraph, Time.....sheesh.

Talisman said...
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the_last_name_left said...

yeah, I missed that one.

thanks for that. Rivero likes to say he wants politicans who serve america 1st, 2nd, 3rd......but Israelis aren't allowed to do it for Israel - that just shows their crazy, blind ultranationalism, and racism apparently.

another example I field against this notion that Israel controls America is the Phalcon deal, where Israel wanted to supply some military equipment to China....and the US stopped it. Isreal was not happy. Of course, it's never included by those doing the complaining.

first google link from "israel china phalcon":

"The Israeli decision, under intense American pressure, to cancel the sale of the Phalcon Airborne Early Warning System to China during the Camp David summit in July 2000 threatens to be a major foreign policy debacle for Israel.

What was once a promising Israeli endeavor to develop strategic and lucrative commercial relations with a rising great power now lies in tatters. The Chinese, still angry over the Phalcon debacle and loss of face, have demanded large-scale compensation. The Americans, the reigning superpower, demand a veto over Israeli arms sales to certain countries. Israel's very credibility as an arms exporter has been called into question.

That makes the relationship clear. I find the notion that Israel dictates US policy to be absurd. It has an influence - it's an ally. But it comes at a cost, obviously.

Another oddity is the argument that's fielded about Iraq war being on behalf of Israel.

It's claimed that the Israelis were lying to US about Iraq's weapons.....but if the Israelis knew Saddam didn't have WMD, and needed to lie about it, then we can't say that Iraq was a massive threat to Israel - and Israel must have known it. In which case, attacking Iraq can hardly be explained by saying it is war for Israel: if Israel lied about Iraq's WMD then it already knew Iraq was no existential threat....therefore for what reason would they have needed to destroy it?

On Iraq (and afghan) Rivero slides between two positions - at different times he says either that it was "war for Israel" or that "It's all about the oil!"...depending on whatever the story he's commenting on is about.

I did have a whole long list of examples of both claims being made by Rivero, and how self-contradictory they were. But it's lost when that website/forum closed.

I also had a long list of Rivero denouncing hackers, using examples where he called for hackers to be sent to Guantanamo and waterboarded etc. He said that would solve the problem! So, you know, it's ok to waterboard hackers, but not terrorists? Bizarre.

Talisman said...

Okay, I'm off topic again. You may wish I'd just banned you from you blog by the time I get done commenting on all the dark and ugly things you revealed to me.:)

Since you brought it up, I decided to do a little research on Holocaust denial. I never really dug into it, but I know the argument is that it's just “revisionists” doing their job.
Here's one WRH feels is unjustly harassed:

I looked him up on Wikipedia.

Here are his credentials as a scholarly historian:

“Professionally, Z√ľndel worked as a graphic artist and printer.”

Well, he certainly seems qualified. At least he's a neutral historian, just trying to get at the truth. His most famous pamphlet:

"The Hitler We Loved and Why"

Charming. Can we at least hope he is sane?

“His main offerings were his own books claiming that flying saucers were Nazi secret weapons launched from an underground base in Antarctica, from which the Nazis hoped to conquer the world.”

Makes perfect sense to me. I can see why Rivero is concerned about him. :)

Talisman said...
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the_last_name_left said...

No, it's fine Talisman - you carry on. ;)

haha - one forum I was at, I raised Zundel and his publication of claims that the Nazis were living under the South pole, and flying spaceships......and one dude dug out all this stuff showing how plausible it was. lol. That's plausible, but the Holocaust ain't? yikes....where to go from there? lol.

To be fair to the guy, he was less concerned about Holocaust denial and simply much more interested in UFOs. "Why are they persecuting UFO-ologists?" hehe

Before the internet I never realised there were so many crazy folk. I'd imagined the internet cutting the barriers to international fraternity....all that jazz. The reality was more like getting swamped in junk. And people like Larry. ;)

So, no, I can't imagine any regret over perhaps opening your eyes to some of this stuff. Though if you show up on the Nazis radar, it can be pretty gruesome. Our leftie anti-war forum suffered an infestation of them once I'd began trying to expose their presence at WRH/911 Troof/Patriot movement. Wow - those people are sooooo dark. And completely unethical - lies, distortions, cruel, vicious, racist, violent.....Really, really deeply ugly souls. It was frightful. I found it difficult to log-on to the forum, knowing that I'd have a whole slew of outrageous denunciations to rebut everyday.

All that was happening at the same time as I was led to reassess all the stuff I thought I knew about 911. I'd become increasingly suspicious about much of what I'd been led to believe about 911 Conspiracy....because I'd seen it develop a deeply rightwing flavour, and seen how it indulged 'revisionist' history. When I went back to re-examine much of what I thought I believed, I found these same people all over it. It took a few years to go through it all, but I was left with quite the opposite opinion - the stuff I'd believed about the conspiracy rested on far less than I'd thought, and in fact suffered from all sorts of failings, not the least of which is the lack of ethics amongst the far-right. They lie. That's why I started calling it Troof - because it looks like Truth, but isn't. ;)

And once I started to raise issues with the claims made by Truthers about 911 too, then they really turned on me - obviously I must work for Mossad etc. Was I Jewish? lol.

Eventually it was no surprise to find people like (ex-prof) Stephen Jones and his thermite claims having to field a defence against accusations of working with Holocaust-deniers etc.

Here's one of my favourite tales about fascism and 911 Troof. A seedy little tale, but amusing, and quite revealing imo.

the_last_name_left said...

Probably the most useful thing to me when trying to sort out all this stuff was Dave Neiwert's stuff:


Not only does it help clarify exactly what fascism is, it's focus is modern USA, particularly the Patriot Movement.

They're fairly substantial essays and a wonderful aid in spotting this stuff. Once one gets a handle on what he says, it becomes much easier to notice it. It's very good and certainly worth a look.

the_last_name_left said...

here's the messed-up link again:



Talisman said...
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the_last_name_left said...

Yes, definitely interested, thanks.

If you'd rather write privately you can email me...
the_last_name_left /

Up to you.

I apologise for my hostility. I'm a lifelong socialist and, well, nazis are the pits. You understand..... :D I'm sorry to have perhaps put you off posting stuff. Especially as it's pretty daunting to publish stuff at first, isn't it? But if one's intent is good, even mistakes have a way of working themselves out, right?

I know my written voice is pretty hostile and obnoxious..... I hate the way I write.....I read it back years later and it's embarassing. But there we are, I never suspected I was the next Orwell or anything. You shouldn't take it personally, and I have no hostility anymore (even though it might not come over that way).

I've been banned so many times from blogs and sites I wanted to get the point over whilst I could - your blog being open to comments was a rare chance to post amongst the things Rivero links to.

I try to post at his links when I can.....and then he says The Megaphonies have showed up. lol. No, just me, on my tod, in Wales. He even thinks his critics on the net are part of a conspiracy. haha. I wish I really was getting paid for doing this....

Here's an example where Rivero was out in the wild, away from the safety of his own controlled space.

[I'm CurtOnTheRadio - a reference to Rivero having Maynard on his radio show]

Rivero told his readers to go to the page and add comments about his letter to the I did. Just not what he wanted to hear. ;)

He then posted at WRH claiming that Israel's Megaphonies had shown up and were trying to halt discussion etc. In reality he was the one trying to organise responses - it was his anti-semitic network that was being marshalled to create a false sense of public opinion etc, not my non-existent one.


On Libya my position is....I am very unhappy that UK got involved in domestic affairs of a sovereign nation. I suggested to friends that a few of us could take over a small village in mid Wales, and declare it an independent state, ask for the UN to support us and we'd be recognised as the legitimate government of the new socialist republic of Wales.

Somehow we'd have less luck, I imagine.

Civil war is always messy - what the hell are we doing? What right to interfere do we have? How wise is it to do so, whatever the supposed humanitarian reasons for it? What about Soviets in Hungary? How is it so different?

I recognise the counter-argument just sit back and allow Gadaffi to do what he likes when we have the capability to intervene....? There is something to that argument, though I think I reject it. The uprisings are an attempt to overthrow the government of a sovereign state - it's a serious business and no state will simply allow that to happen. Tiannaman sq? Hugely regretful, but what were we to do about it? If the protests in Spain or Greece get much more serious and violent will we intervene on their behalf? Of course not.

So it clearly looks like a gambit for the oil, which the West has sought since Gadaffi threw the West out and nationalised the oil, which was largely BritishPetroleum iirc.

I wonder too how much of a coincidence it is that all these uprisings are happening shortly after USA setup their African-theatre control thing.

In short, I really don't know what to think, other than I have deep reservations, and don't believe we should be so involved - certainly not actively & militarily.

How long is it going to be?