Saturday, 10 October 2009

Prisonplanet Claims "friends on the left"! Attacks suggestions of anti-semitism.

Alex Jones has fans on both the left and right of the political spectrum
So claims Prisonplanet! Amazing. Even though Alex Jones insists the "left/right paradigm is false"!!!!!!!!!

Wow - I'm stunned to read Prisonplanet lay claim to having "friends on the left".

Do they mean Willis Carto? Eustace Mullins? Jerome Corsi? Ron Paul? Mike Rivero?

Alex Jones thinks "wealth distribution" is "communist trash". He believes the NWO is "socialist" - E.V.I.L.

Now he brags about having "friends on the left"! Listen up, Alex? "FUCK OFF YOU DO!!!"

Prisonplanet brags about its 'friends on the left' as it derides its target for being "ultra-elite" Bilderbergers.
In a hit piece that appears in The New Republic magazine, a publication owned by the ultra-rich Asper Bilderberg family, author Michelle Goldberg has trouble comprehending why Alex Jones has fans on both the left and right of the political spectrum, ascribing it not to the fact that Jones is interested in pursuing truth over partisanship, but to the claim that he is a “purveyor of paranoia”.
That'd be the same Bilderbergers popularised by Willis Carto's longtime friend and colleague, Big Jim Tucker, right? The same Jim Tucker of Carto's far-right talking box AFP that Alex Jones employs whenever he needs a rent-a-quote about "the Boilderbergs", RIGHT?
Michelle Goldberg wastes little time in attacking Alex Jones for taking on….you guessed it…..Bilderberg and Israel!
Like there's a connection between these things......Bilderbergs and Israelis? (I always thought it was Jews, not Israelis) And errr......has Alex Jones really "taken on the Israelis"? He's always tried to avoid being overtly anti-semitic........but now he's claiming he's "taken on the Israelis"? Does this mark a shift in Jones' and Prisonplanet's views? (They used to claim Poplawski the cop-killer opposed Alex's views -- because Poplawski thought Jones didn't "go after" Israelis/Joooos sufficiently.)

Prisonplanet criticise Michelle Goldberg's attack on Prisonplanet's anti-semitism because:
her paymasters are servants of Bilderberg and Israel
Ahhhhh. Of course!

[The most astonishing thing about criticising people for anti-semitism is that one is guaranteed to be "accused" of being either an Israeli, or a jew (or working for them) LOL The same as if you criticise racism - you get accused of being black, supporting the government of errr.....Congo..... Sure. Nobody says that.]
[Goldberg] actually implies that Jones hates Jews because he states that Obama is just the front man for an international cabal of global elitists.
Gee - how could Michelle Goldberg possibly think that! Of course AJ is misrepresenting what Goldberg thinks, no doubt (I haven't checked - but it's always the case with Jones). And funnily enough it seems Goldberg and I are in agreement - that Jones' attack of "NWO global elites" is a transparent effort to attack "joooos".

It is up to Jones to be specific enough to prove he isn't attacking "joooos". He never is. If his defence of his definitions is such that he claims "I'm not attacking jews - I could mean anyone"........then his definitions are so slack as to be useless.

And. criticially - his audience knows what he means. Look through the comments sections at Prisonplanet and the audience has a very clear anti-semitic core. Also look where Prisonplanet articles are posted........there is a deluge of anti-semitism.
Of course, by making everything about Jews and anti-Semitism, Goldberg is dutifully playing her role as the race pimp in an effort to try and invoke the age-old cliched stereotype of the right-wing extremist and portray Jones as a white supremacist hatemonger, when in reality we spend half our time trying to avoid race and are routinely chastised for doing so by white supremacists themselves.
That reads like a confession to me. They spend half their time trying to avoid race!? WTF does that mean? And see how they make the point that they are criticised by white supremacists? Who cares that white supremacists criticise them? Who would even be aware of it? WHO WOULD BE AWARE OF IT??

I've written earlier that Prisonplanet made a big deal of having "opposing views" to those of white-supremacist Poplawski, the cop killer. I suggested (and showed)that the real issue Poplawski had with Prisonplanet was that Poplawski was unsure as to the degree which Alex Jones saw "the jew" as the problem. Poplawski was unsure of Jones' anti-semitism.

Now we have Alex Jones' Prisonplanet defending itself by drawing attention to the fact that white supremacists criticise them......for their apparent ambivalence over anti-semitism. That's what Poplawski said.........and that's what Prisonplanet had claimed showed they held "opposing views" to Poplawski.

I had suggested that the entire reason Poplawski and white supremacists/fascists were ambivalent about Alex Jones was precisely because Jones was so careful to not appear anti-semitic. That's his whole point.....to not appear to be anti-semitic whilst indulging anti-semitic conspiracy theories through use of euphemisms about "NWO", "global elites", "media monopolies", NEOCON cabal, etc.

And now here's Jones and Prisonplanet defending themselves from accusations of anti-semitism by claiming they get criticism from the far-right/white-supremacism/fascism for not going "far enough", for not being "anti-semitic enough".

That's exactly what I suggested was Jones' ploy. Uncanny.
Prisonplanet: we spend half our time trying to avoid race

LINK
It was linked to from Rivero's WRH too. Nuff said?

Some of what Goldberg actually wrote:
Jones’s roots are very much on the far right. He represents an old strain of American conservatism--isolationist, anti-Wall Street, paranoid about elite conspiracies--that last flowered during the John Birch Society’s heyday. He began his radio broadcasting career in 1996, in his early twenties, with the Austin-based show "The Final Edition," which promulgated all sorts of black-helicopter theories about Bill Clinton. Steeped in the rhetoric of the militia movement, he’s long been a champion of Randy Weaver, the white supremacist whose wife and son were killed in 1992 by federal agents at Ruby Ridge, Idaho. (He’s asserted that the people behind Ruby Ridge and Waco were also behind the 1993 World Trade Center bombings--"Clinton’s Reichstag.")
Bloody hell! She's accurate!

She makes a very important point, imo:
it’s really only since Barack Obama’s election, when Jones turned the full force of his apocalyptic imagination toward the new president, that his ideas have found purchase in the conservative mainstream.
Right! And that's what Jones is about.
[The Obama Deception - Jones' film about Obama] is like The Protocols of the Elders of Zion stripped of any reference to Jews.
Exactly!!

Goldberg mentions that FOX News has been promoting and echoing Jones. Surprised? Then this little blockbuster:
In late July, Republican Congressman Louie Gohmert of Texas appeared on Jones’s show to discuss the "nation-ending" potential of Obama’s policies and the country’s incipient march toward eugenics and fascism.

LINK
Anyway......what is there in the article to get Jones and Prisonplanet so annoyed? Where are the accusations of anti-semitism? Jones's ouevre IS the protocols stripped of references to jews - as Michelle Goldberg says.......that's what makes Jones such an ambivalent figure amongst white supremacists......they recognise his perspective is essentially the protocols stripped of jewish references.......they're just unsure WHY he has stripped them of it....in the same way Poplawski was unsure.

So.....when Alex Jones' Prisonplanet claims white supremacists criticise them for "avoiding race"......we can see it really means criticism for dropping the jews from the Protocols.

So how (AND WHY!!) are Jones and Prisonplanet aware that white supremacists criticise them for "avoiding race" ie for omitting the jews from the protocols?

33 comments:

socrates said...

Hi TLNL, I just left the following at a place that Brad Friedman can't censor what he wants. If you want to, maybe you can add to the general awareness of what Agent99 and Big Dan are all about. Or on anything you want to concerning BradBlog.

The Washington Note

Posted by Prepostericity, Oct 10 2009, 2:59AM - Link

Brad Friedman should be investigated. Anyone who does so will see why no one with any media gravitas takes anything coming out of his website seriously.

Maybe Mr. Freedom of Speech can explain why he has put a robots.txt block on the wayback machine for bradfriedman.com/BradBlog? Is it because embarrassing questions were posed to him concerning one of his earliest hoaxes, the Clint Curtis one?

Brad doesn't want the public to realise that he was a no-name until convicted bomber and drug smuggler Brett Kimberlin started supplying him with so-called whistleblowers. Brad claimed in a Time Magazine interview that he had heard of Brett's reward offer for info leading to an election fraud conviction, and then the two of them started Velvet Revolution. Uhm, that would have been two days later according to the whois information on velvetrevolution.us.

At the end of each of Brad's Sibel Edmonds story, he has begged the public for donations. Perhaps Brad can supply how much VR has raked in from gullible new agers concerned with electoral integrity. I know of one wealthy donor named Lori Grace, an heiress to the Oliver Grace Estate, who has donated to them. Perhaps Brett's wealthy Aunt Harriet Crosby has also relinquished a small fortune to VR?

Now I understand why my extensive expose on Brett Kimberlin was completely deleted from Democratic Underground. Brad has inside power at that forum. One can look into their 2004 archives and see how he was showcased as one of their bloggers. Excuse me? Now why would someone with no journalism training be highlighted like that? Was it to pave the way for when Brett would utilise Brad's public image later on in late 2004 to start raking in the bucks?

It is very true that sincere posters with questions about Sibel Edmonds or anything else pertaining to that tabloid blog will be treated like dirt. One of the last things Brad suggested to me during my last days as a BradBlogger was to dig up dirt on himself. You see, I had come up with startling information about the Director of the Election Science Institute tying him to an astroturfing chain running the gamut from promoting Republican Matt Damschroder, people like Bev Harris and Brad, to ironically people dissing folks like Bev and Brad, to even supporting Ron Paul and talking about psychological operations. Brad buried the story. I had even come up with proof that the Director's brother, I am pretty sure they are brothers, was one of the first assemblymen to sponsor a bill for new electronic voting technology after the 2000 Presidential vote debacle in Florida. The director named Steven Hertzberg had been accused by many in the electoral integrity community of whitewashing the 2004 Ohio results.

Anyway, it didn't take too long to uncover Brad's big achilles heel, that being the Speedway Bomber Brett Kimberlin. That name may sound familiar to folks. He's the one who claimed to have sold pot to Dan Quayle. It turns out that was even made up, just like Brett's claims that Michael Connell was fearful of his life due to Karl Rove. A common theme coming out of Brett Kimberlin Productions has been of the right winger turned whistleblower. Folks new to BradBlog can quickly see the deep holes in Sibel's story. Well, check into some of the other crapola coming out of BradBlog and VR over the years, and you can see a recurrent pattern. There is a solid reason why Brad's stuff never gets any play in the mainstream media. That is because it all appears to be nothing more than the work of confidence men.

{continued}

socrates said...

Brad says he can't control what the posters at his blog write. Well, he has one moderator named Agent99 who blogs quite frequently at a place called Big Dan's Big Blog. One can check that place out and then easily verify that anti-semitic memes are being astroturfed. Over the years, sources have been presented linking them all to Willis Carto, Alex Jones, Michael Rivero and other dubious right wing propagandists.

A lot of crazy stuff has found its original mojo through Democratic Underground. There is a person named Tinoire who runs a place named Progressive Independent. That place is affiliated with Michael Rivero, one of the most widely known freeper conspiracy theorists on the net. Tinoire and her group would like folks to think they are left wing communists and socialists. Funny thing about that is that again, Tinoire has been a big supporter of Michael Rivero. Not only that, she registered Republican and voted for Ron Paul. Not only that, she said on the Ronald Reagan forum that she worked in military intelligence. Not only that, her forum has been affiliated with Velvet Revolution!

I recently came across proof of Rivero having had direct ties to McDonnell Douglas, the largest military contractor at the time. Fancy that.

One more tidbit, and then I'll stop there. Brad has a close friend named Larisa Alexandrovna who is editor of a place called Raw Story. A few years ago she said that acclaimed New Yorker journalist Mark Singer wet himself with his work exposing Brett Kimberlin. She said Brett had been exonerated and won a huge settlement. All lies. Brett Kimberlin has also been trying to portray himself as an ex-political prisoner. This is the guy who created Brad friedman. No Brett Kimberlin, and we'd all be asking Brad who.

Hmmm, I see the other thread here where Brad did a mea culpa concerning Joe Lauria. I can see why Brad is trying to get Joe's article tied to his efforts to establish credibility with his own part in this story. Brad's desperate to show credibility. I think the donations are drying up as more and more people uncover who he really is, and how Brett created him. Brad Friedman isn't a journalist, far from it. He is a tabloid brand. And finally, I would like to say that it is not just the one person here claiming different gadfly types get accused of being one and the same. Brad's moderator Agent99 does that a lot. So does Larisa Alexandrovna. Intrepid reporters should contact Lori Grace and other VR donors. They should find out how much that group has raked in over the years through their various confidence tricks. While Bev Harris took a lot of heat as being a "grifter," it appears that something even worse has been going on concerning Velvet Revolution. There have been no convictions due to electoral fraud because of whatever they do, and the Brett Kimberlin aspect is simply fascinating. That is the true story behind this, that of internet convolution. To repeat, if there was no Brett Kimberlin, then there would have been no BradBlog the way it is today. Brad was a nobody before him. All roads are leading to the Speedway Bomber, if one wishes to truly understand how Brad Friedman became a successful product.

And ok, one last point. It is highly doubtful that Brad is unaware of the anti-semitism coming from his moderator. So why does he still allow her to moderate his den of sensationalism? I also went through Brad's archives trying to figure out why and when she was granted the position. I see nothing. She simply seems to have appeared and become part and parcel of BradBlog. Why is BradBlog moderated by someone with close ties to Jew haters? Now there is some FBI dude and that CIA dude being added on as "proving" the credibility of the Sibel Edmonds piece. I don't have any paystubs to prove it, but my gut is telling me a lot of this stuff goes beyond simply grifting.

the_last_name_left said...

Good stuff. I posted a comment too.

Seems you got some interest from "questions", at least. :)

Let's see how it goes......

the_last_name_left said...

sry - interest was from "answers", not "questions".

socrates said...

Thanks for joining in. I just left some more posts. Brad showed up again and has relegated us to being non-worthy of receiving sincere responses. This is a situation where we have to put faith in the good readers to give our content a chance. The proverbial them are clearly playing the man, not the ball, as you put it. I made some fundamental good points, as you did. But Brad makes it seem like there is no substance to our questions. Brad wants people to think he has written for The Guardian as a journalist. I see no proof of that. I think what he does for them is merely write in their open forum guest slots, like an Arianna Huffington type blogger does. So that must mean Alec Baldwin is a journalist too! I've also made a public plea for real journalists to investigate Velvet Revolution. I think that could break this story wide open. Brad likes to cry poverty at his own place while begging for donations. I don't believe him. Then I see him in bed with conservative rags, and I start to agree with your asking if Brad may perhaps be part of a right wing network attempting to break down the concept of democracy. That may not sound as sexy as my cointelpro-like suggestions, but I do admit that it is a theory more likely to gain traction than one concerning decoder rings. Plus, Agent99 is always on about those, so it couldn't possibly be true! Like Brad's response to you about being Jewish. That proves he couldn't possibly be tied to anti-semitic rantings! Not!!! Apologies in advance for excessive use of the exclamation punctuation. :) Take care.

the_last_name_left said...

hmmm - kinda depressing that he can just avoid addressing the issues........

and.....he's an insulting fuck. doesn't take much for him to turn to ad hominem, does it?

anyway - maybe there'll be some ripples.

I don't get why that place refused to post a long comment I wrote which was full of quotes from plunger, Z, Dan and A99. Damn them - that hardly helped. lol

socrates said...

I don't think you can put up more than two links in a post, and there is also a word limit. That's why I had to break posts of mine into more than one like I do here. It is clearly an indictment of Brad that he doesn't answer our most objective questions, yours about the Big Dan-Agent99 crowd and mine concerning Kimberlin and Velvet Revolution. I think I am onto something in that he is no journalist. Because if you go to his Guardian essays they are in a section called comment is free. Anyway, thanks again for following my lead. I sincerely think we have won this internet fight with him. That's why he quickly brushes us aside as being nuts, hoping that most people won't stop and slowly take in what we have posted, reflect on it a bit. I packed a lot into my first one. I guess that is where people like us are at years after we started to look into such things. We pretty much can rattle things out. One guy said he'd have to investigate what I wrote, but I doubt anyone responds to the content. It's much easier to portray us as insignificant. Brad can't win by acknowldging content that transcends us as individuals. For what it's worth, Brad doesn't have much credibility at this point. He's reduced to calling me a stalker. That's all he's got. I wonder how much money VR has raked in. Clearly he doesn't want to go near the Kimberlin or Agent99 anti-semitism linkage. We need a real journalist with training to finish this. I doubt it will be Joe Lauria, though he seems to be the one best suited for the role, seeing how BradBlog friend Leopold stole his identity. I don't have much faith in Lauria after he told me I was on the wrong path to think Madsen could be willing disinformation. Plus, it all seems too convenient how he showed up initially with the Leopold thing, and how he has praised Madsen and co-wrote those London Times articles on Edmonds.

the_last_name_left said...

Well, I have never bothered to get a Guardian id til now, even though it was my newspaper back when I bought papers. Long time ago...... :D

Time to get one. Guardian comment moderation is pretty easy going - so much so that some of the writers there don't like it.

They let much more through than coward-censors at Brad-Blog.

You're right that CIF section of G is not being "a Guardian journalist". Quite what the relationship is though, I'm not sure.

Be nice to make the point there that Brad deletes Guardian articles at his own website. And he doesn't have control of the moderation. :D

socrates said...

Great minds think alike. I too was considering signing up to Comment is Free, I used to love reading the Guardian when living in Eire, and I have used their stuff on occasion at my forum.

You're quite correct to hammer the point of disingenuous moderating practices at the BradBlog. We're not the only ones doing that too. We are definitely the only ones tying him directly to anti-semitism, and there are only a handful of folks who have ventured into the Kimberlin angle.

The Guardian does seem to allow free speech. There are a number of posts being deleted by them, but sometimes that can be legit. That posts hammering away at Brad for glossing over ACORN negatives are allowed tells me unless one breaks their rules, all posts are published. Time will tell on that if you or both of us venture over there.

Democratic Underground protects Brad. They allow dissension against him, but it usually turns into an enigma. Brad is on their blogroll, and like I pointed out at the Washington Note, Brad used to be published by DU when he was a virtual unknown. HuffingtonPost also seems to protect him, unless Brad himself has moderating powers over his entries there.

Brad doesn't seem like the brightest bulb in the toolshed. He'd have greater credibility if he just owned up to things. He shouldn't persist in claiming to be a journalist. If he just went with the citizen journalism thing, he'd be all set. He'd be more believable as a regular Joe Schmoe doing the work that the mainstream media shovels under the rug.

One guy who I won't name because I now don't trust him, actually someone who claimed to have dinner with Brad and who used to be Bev Harris' pitbull gave me some good advice back in the day. He said to combat trolls, one must get them away from their own turf. He said it is impossible to expose them directly any other way.

{continued}

socrates said...

People like Clemons of the Washington Note aren't gonna want to get tied to a disinfo punk like Friedman. He seems to be running a completely above board free for all in the comments. Away from BradBlog, Friedman has less tricks to use that he has been accustomed to while on his own turf. This explains why he hasn't mentioned Agent99 once on that thread. Before you askede him about her, he had mentioned that the nature of his blog means all comments are allowed if they don't break his few rules, that therefore he shouldn't be held accountable for those comments. But now we have shown the blogosphere that anti-semitism is coming directly out of his moderator. Away from his own turf, he is not able to respond. At his place, he would simply delete the comments and replace it with the generic banned deranged commentator line.

Yes, it'd be nice to get the word out about him at Comment is Free. We'd have to keep going back and see when he makes a new entry. He doesn't seem to post there that often, and the comment sections seem to be closed after a certain point. I hate ripping into ACORN too much, but like others have said at that Guardian section, if one claims to be a journalist, they have to cover all sides. Brad should disclose his academic background. He needs to prove he has been trained as a journalist, or stop astroturfing that he is one. I think it'll be cool when we corner him at Comment is Free. He'll probably implode yet again and start yapping about stalkers. It reminds me of the movie the Dead Zone. Spoiler alert. At the end, the psychic was able to get the evil politician to show his true colours and not have to go through with assassinating him to stop a future Hitler type scenario he had phrophesized. The bad guy played by Martin Sheen held up a baby to protect himself from the would be assassin prepared to commit an evil act as a means to a good end. I am anti-violent. A guy like Brad is very lucky I am a vegetarian who wouldn't hurt more than a mosquito trying to drain some of my blood. That also goes to show that he doesn't believe I am a deranged stalker. Otherwise, he wouldn't be egging me on to go after him. So I go after him the legal way, by confronting him in open source outlets.

the_last_name_left said...

Hmmm - not sure than WashNotes place is quite the best forum for challenging Brad.....but we had no choice, I guess. At least he showed, and gave a poor performance, avoiding the issues.

I have been pressing the issue about VelvetRevolution's "stop domestic terror campaign"........and how the organisations they suggest are backing it have absolutely nothing about it on their websites.

Clearly Brad's velvetrevolution has been lying about the extent of their backing.

Someone defended VR by pointing out that VR don't actually claim those organisations are part of the campaign.

But that's just a play into my hands........because the intent of VR was obviously to suggest to the reader that those organisations were involved. Why else would they be mentioned? And why else would the front page blurb say "various non-profit organisations" and then link right to the page listing those organisations........?

That's a very serious and rock-solid example of Brad/VR manipulating and deceiving their audience.

I think that's atrocious ethics. And so should everyone else.

They're askng for donations off the back of reputable organisations names! And serving their own - private - agenda too. Disgusting - no matter what they intend doing with any donations, if any.

That fact of lying about the organisations affiliated with their "campaign" also served to counter somebody who argued my reasoning was flawed - why would Brad be surrounded by anti-semitism and yet be associated with the ADL etc? As I said - he isn't actually associated with the ADL via that campaign at all........so WHY DID BRAD WANT PEOPLE TO THINK HE WAS?

I went to check all the websites, and searched google - none of the sites mentioned by VR as being part of the campaign even mention VR - let alone do they promote VR's campaign.

STONE-COLD ROCK-SOLID FACT.

So why put it there? Innoculation? Encourage donations? Whatever - it ain't nice.

socrates said...

I read your posts, good job. I don't think I have the stomach to go back again. The names over there are confusing- questions, answers, pissed off american, outraged american..... And the language has completely deteriorated. And not one of them is dealing with one iota of the content, while seemingly continuing to imply we are the same person.

Good catch on VR plugging associations with various groups, yet those places according to google don't even know they exist. Thus it does appear that Brad and Brett have been up to their old games of making stuff up.

You didn't ask about the donations. I did.

I don't think I saw any Brad articles on Sibel Edmonds at the Guardian. I think that is the place where he can be confronted. The Washington Note is a mainstream lefty blog. It is part of the advertising liberal tag. I'm not sure why those guys are allowed to curse so much.

The worst is actually not the Jew haters, but to me, the guy who is saying so what if BradBlog lies, so what if it is some kind of front or however he put it. He's basically saying even if you have something to say or link to, no one is listening and no one cares.

Yes, Brad looks pretty bad there. I think so too. His silence says it all. His support of poa as a normal poster says it all. We are two different people. I have the background with Brad, not you. There's no justification for him to put you on ignore. I don't think he should even dodge my questions. It's a cheap excuse to call us crazies instead of answering our claims which can be backed up. As for Kimberlin he is definitely a convicted bomber and drug smuggler on parole.

That might be law breaking if he is asking for donations based on things like being affiliated with the ADL. That's fraud, in my honest opinion. Hopefully, a reporter or two saw our posts. There's no point in discussing any of it with those people at that forum. They are obfuscators. I think that one guy is a concern troll, while the others are outright trolls.

He's a concern troll because he showed interest at first. He made it seem like he was on the same page. But now he says no matter what we are posting, it just doesn't matter.

Here is the link to a Big Dan haloscan, the one you linked to in one of your entries here on how Big Dan was censoring you. I see that the Plunger comment about googling Hitler. Plunger wrote- "Google users enter: Hitler my political testament"

Now I see what you mean about that phrase. It leads to Stormfront and that Birdman dude and other right wing neonazi sources. I guess that is a Birdman thing or something, the instructions on what to google. I can see why Big Dan deleted that exchange. That shows that Plunger is partaking in those sources and that he is a respected and trusted member of the Big Dan-Agent99 clan.

link

That link takes one to one of your comments. Dan changed your name to Agent99. If that gets changed back, as I wouldn't be surprised that they are mining our comments here, I have saved the page and can provide screenshot the proof.

{continued}

socrates said...

So your exchange with Plunger is gone, but some other stuff remains, and one of your posts is signed off as Agent99, as if she was taking Big Dan to task for banning you. This is the post and how it currently looks:

Well, you could just address the issue instead of trying to hide from it.

when you ban people for making relevant, civil - and important - points, you shouldn't expect to be able to just silence them.

We ARE talking about NAZISM here - something which you would surely accept is an important issue.

We are also talking about propaganda - and manipulation, distortion whatever.......stuff you seem to think is important.

Or is it only important when you can control the terms of the debate? When you can criticise without any accountability? When

you can ban people without admitting it?

You link to Willis Carto's AFP - and you also link to a lot of very questionable places. Why questionable - because they are fascist

propaganda organs. You have defended them because they provide "valuable information".

And yet - you describe the New York Post as "NAZI". You think EVERY sentiment and idea in the New York Post is NAZI? That's

the basis on which you seem to defend some of these very dodgy ie FASCIST sources - that they might provide "good information".

Yet that doesn't apply to the New York Post. Hmmm.

But it does to places that are far more overtly fascist - and places which are clearly connected to N American oganised NAZISM.

That's not a very good argument, is it, Dan.

Address the issues instead of banning people?
agent99 | 08.25.09 - 9:54 am | #



There's something very fishy going on. I think our best chance to make a bigger dent will be at Comment is Free at The Guardian.We'll have to be on our best behaviour. The thread at The Washington Note is kind of too long and noisy now. Posts are getting chewed up by the software. We'll have to keep an eye out for the next Brad entry at CommentIsFree. It looks like Brad likes to respond to the posts, and it does appear that he is aware of it being a tougher turf for himself, as he seems to have written mostly about ACORN and other things less volatile than his Sibel Edmonds or Michael Connell crap. I think we have located the two biggest thorns in his side- Agent99 and the Speedway Bomber.

the_last_name_left said...

I agree that VR's suggesting those places are connected to their campaign is fraudulent. It's highly unethical at the very least. It's deceptive. It speaks volumes for our "concerned man of the people" Brad Friedman.

It's disgusting.

And yes, that thread has gone down the drain at WashNotes. Liberal, lefty? Crikey. See how far to the right everything has drifted? Look at the crap there?

As for Dan's place - I pretty much have everything saved. Sure - I could fake those pages and make them say anything......as anyone with a bit of net nonce could. But I have them all saved. Or at least the vast majority.

Again - the dishonesty of BigDan - by manipulating the comments, changing the names, deleting 00s of my comments, banning IPs, over and over.

Still - I think we managed to get across something. :D

I feel like I should apologise for perhaps taking the conversation in the direction of my interests too much. But there we are......

Anyway - I'm grateful they gave us free reins. Makes a change from all these pseuds banning people all the time.

socrates said...

No, don't apologise. It's academic to share information. The best seminars I was fortunate to be in were in a safe atmosphere, in a circle, just sharing our stuff. That is precisely what is lacking in the blogosphere. It's like when you say the man gets covered not the ball. These people are so set in their ways to protect Brad's image, there is no recognition of content. That is anti-academic.

I'm glad you've covered the neo-nazi side to this. I couldn't have done that. I can do it to a point. But you know much more than me. It's like how I knew more about Brad, Kimberlin, Larisa, and I knew that you'd be very interested in Big Dan's Big Blog.

Well, America has moved to the right. Obama is kind of in the best sense what a good Republican would look like.

But I think a place like Washington Note does give people a fair shake to add comments. Unfortunately looking at the kind of topics they cover, it's too political for me. My mind doesn't think that way.

We have brought different things to the table, and consequently there is now a better chance the right people will follow through, perhaps journalists! There are many folks who are as sickened as you are about the neonazi internet stuff. You could draw those folks in. I am fascinated by the Brett Kimberlin side of this. It helps me that I have a copy of Mark Singer's close to 400 page book.

I think we are feared by the zeitgeist makers because we don't really need any more content to bust them. They always want to turn the page onto their next lesbian thing or next Dieb-Throat or next Michael Connell threatened by Karl Rove hoax. I hate Karl Rove as much as anyone, but it doesn't mean that story coming out of Kimberlin is anything more than a hoax.

We are like, dammit no, we will not turn the page. Look at Rivero's ties to the Special Forces Underground, Curtis Maynard, and Tinoire. Look at what Brad's moderator represents. That's some great stuff you came up with. It's disturbing that there is nowhere for likeminded honest people to go. I admit I have a chip on my shoulder, but it's grounded in truth. I especially have a disdain for fake lefties. Rush Limbaugh, Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, Karl Rove and Cheney- yeah, they stink. But it's these fake lefties who I feel are the greatest impediment to positive social change.

This may sound crazy, but my gut is telling me that Brad Friedman has known Brett Kimberlin from way before the November 2004 election.

the_last_name_left said...

Sorry - have to splash and dash - no sleep for two days.

If a hunch of mine proves correct, I might have something very interesting as soon as I get the emailed reply.

I don't know how long it will take to get a reply though. Bugger!

Hope I am not making something out of nothing.....

Anyway - I gotta sleep. Night.

:)

socrates said...

I hear you. I did go back and left a scathing post or two. I left it all on the table. That Washington Note might not be lefty enough for our hearts' contents, but perhaps it is folks in the mainstream with integrity we are trying to connect with. I am positive there are plenty of people in Indiana at least who are fully aware of what Brett Kimberlin is all about. I think the others, if they are not useful idiots, are working to circumscribe us into the noise, that we are no different than their craziness. That we are just another brand of crazy. I don't think you are paid to post, for what it's worth. Anyway, not trying to make anything private. I certainly do like it when people aren't unfairly deleted and banned, but if you ever want to throw anything by me to get a second opinion, we do have the email system at the forum. Excellent job focusing in on the hypocritical campaign of VR against domestic terrorism. That definitely appears to be a scam for donations. Great job with showing how that url provided by VR goes nowhere. Now that was idiotic. They coudn't come up with fifteen bucks for GoDaddy.com to make up a separate website? I don't want to jinx us, but I think someday, somehow we will be vindicated or something to that effect, that they'll be some justice.

socrates said...

That's quite a long and now convoluted thread going on at the Washington Note. How much cognitive dissonance can there be, until one has the right to wonder if a lot of it has to do with concern trolling? It's just more evidence that there is really nowhere to go on the net to post and get sincere feedback.

Myself and The_Last_Name_Left have come up with some great, objective points. TLNL has made a great connection between the new VR campaign against domestic violence flying in the face of who runs that organisation. It's as if a rapist is running a rape crisis center. It's like a drug addict is running an anti-drug use campaign. It simply doesn't add up.

There is this dude named Frank Schaeffer who has joined forces with VR, as in an endorsement. I left a post here, but it isn't showing up. This has happened to me before with Huffington Post. They are another place that is into censorship. Now what is so bad about the following? Why are legitimate questions being ignored?

screenshot

The comment is not posted. There are no comments pending at this time. Yet again Brett Kimberlin is being protected by people with power within the most popular outlets in the progressive blogosphere.

One of the biggest things about Kimberlin that has truly made by blood boil is how he and people like Larisa Alexandrovna have portrayed him as having been a political prisoner. Here are some examples.

Punktastic on Epoxy

Speedway Bomber: It is important that I was a political prisoner but not the facts that are behind it. My status gave me the grist to the mill to come up with a lot of the feeling and emotion within the music. I am ravidly anti-Republican here in America - I am a hardcore liberal and they just don't like me. I helped to elect Bill Clinton and had to deal with scandal and they (the authorities) did everything they could to screw me around and they threw me in jail. They did everything they could to get me in jail, I was on parole for an old charge and they revoked my parole.

On other nu-metal bands:

These guys haven't been through any angst. I have been tortured, abused and I have had my liberty taken away, all because of speech. When I scream or sing or yell I am being real and this is what distinguishes our band. The lyrics are really intelligent you can take them on dual levels. So many bands talk about shagging chicks in high school, but there is a lot of autobiographical stuff on there.

{continued}

socrates said...

From a review of Epoxy by Alex Steininger

"Front man Brett Kimberlin has an interesting story. Exercising his First Amendment rights to speech and political activity, Kimberlin, without a trial, was hauled off to federal prison after being targeted by right-wingers who wanted to punish him for being a musician, writing a book and speaking out about politics.

Spending every waking minute in prison (and there were plenty of them) writing songs, he started a prison band, a band that became hugely popular with the incarcerated...."


From a 2003 interview with Sound the Sirens Magazine by Billy Maulana:

"When Pollen Records released Epoxy's debut album, 'Nothing Else', front man Brett Kimberlin figured he'd seen the worst of what the government calls "free speech". After exercising his right, he was unceremoniously hauled off into prison and targeted by right wingers; punished for being who he was - a musician, a writer and someone who actively spoke out against injustice. When Brett submitted his first music video to conglomerates MTV, he once again faced the bitter taste of censorship. And like countless times before, Kimberlin is taking action into his own hands - setting into motion the plan to "educate, organize and activate"...."

Brett claimed that MTV was censoring one of his videos. That could be something to investigate. Anyone can check out any of his tunes and hear that he has no talent. On another website, I saw how his band was being compared to Nirvana and how he has a whining voice which takes an acquired taste. I think he paid extra bucks to get a few real musicians to join his band. I think this was simply his initial foray back into capitalism. It was his platform to jumpstart his Justice Through Music idea. Then he found Brad to be his frontman. Brett simply had a plan to become rich again like he was before the age of 20 as a major drug smuggler. I think MTV didn't play his music for one reason. It stinks!!! Same with Brad Friedman's "journalism" and why no mainstream media pays him any heed. It stinks!!!! It's nothing but a big pile of unsubstantiated yellow journalism and outright hoaxes. More from the interview/article:

5. Your views and political stance landed you time in prison - Did your views and/or ideas change because of the time you spent in prison?

My views about justice only got stronger in prison. I got to see and feel injustice first hand and spent a lot of time fighting for the rights of prisoners who were uneducated or from foreign countries. I have kept it up since being released, spending a great deal of resources on civil rights and liberties.

6. Many groups and organizations took up your cause and rallied for your release, did this surprise you and how did the media pick up your story?

My case is very convoluted but in essence, I was punished for exercising my First Amendment right to speech. Fortunately, many enlightened people came to my defense, along with the American Civil Liberties Union, Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch, and that is why my band is donating a portion of each sale to those groups. It did not really surprise because the actions of the American Government were so blatant and therefore it was hard to ignore. What does surprise me is that so many people did and do not care what happened to me. My feeling is that if people don't stand up to government sponsored injustice, it will only get worse.

the_last_name_left said...

he started a prison band

Yeah - that's real persecution. Hmmm.

The lyrics are really intelligent you can take them on dual levels.

Wow - a real artist huh?

When I scream or sing or yell I am being real

And others aren't?

this is what distinguishes our band.

sure.

No-one else is "real"?.

And no-one else has been "persecuted" or faced "injustice"? Everyone else is mollycoddled, spoilt and trivial?

Hmmm. Ok.

I got the impression it was Kimberlin with the silver spoon.

Some folks are born silver spoon in hand,
Lord, don’t they help themselves, y’all!
But when the taxman comes to the door,
Lord, the house looks like a rummage sale.

--CCR


A prison band?

$000s reward for info on election/voting fraud?

bizarre.

One thing that strikes me is that to believe Kimberlin was "a political prisoner", and all the rest of it - is to believe in some.....err.....conspiracy. The tale, as explained by Larisa Alexandranova (or whatever) sounds exactly like a tale from the Alex Jones book of NWO conspiracy......and the far-right "jewish world conspiracy" stuff.

Imagine asking Brad's moderator, plunger and co who they thought was behind the conspiracy to persecute Kimberlin? JOOOOS perhaps?

I think its perfectly possible that former 'criminals' can 'reform', and should be given a reasonable chance of doing so. Especially if it's to campaign against violence and intolerance, for example.

But......as the supporters' tale is told about Kimberlin, he isn't regretful, contrite, apologetic, reformed. He's none of those things......because he never did the crime.

So, it isn't about allowing a former bomber a chance to reform -- rather, to treat Kimberlin as "a non-bomber" means one has to buy into the whole tale that he was a political prisoner - or at the very least was subject to a miscarriage of justice. (But that isn't the claim of his defenders)

And errr.....it's quite reasonable not to buy into the idea of some grand conspiracy to politically persecute Kimberlin. (Doubtless Kimberlin believes it.....or pretends to. But.....why should anyone else necessarily?)

All that leaves only other position - that he's a convicted bomber, and unapologetic about it. He doesn't even accept responsibility for it.

This would mean that he's now portraying his (deserved) punishment for the bombing(s) as "political persecution".

That's (morally) a very, very long way from being "reformed".

It means he's using the legitimate punishment of his own homicidal actions as a vehicle to gain legitimacy as "an activist", a journalist, a musician, a politician etc.

All by claiming his punishment was politically motivated.....and part of some....errrr....big conspiracy.

It seems perfectly reasonable to reach such a conclusion imo. There's an absence of anything concrete to suggest Kimberlin was subject to some great conspiracy.

It's all as mad as a box of frogs.

the_last_name_left said...

Brett claimed that MTV was censoring one of his videos.

They censor mine too.

:)

They won't touch my music! None of the major music stations in the world will play my stuff. Nor any of the minor ones. I'm being persecuted!!!

socrates said...

Thanks for the hefty response. It shows that this isn't rocket science. I should fish the Singer book for the name of Brett's grandfather. Yes, Kimberlin appears to have been a rich, little brat drughead. His granddad was some aviation pioneer. Kimberlin is now living in Maryland near his aunt Harriet Crosby, who has probably by now donated a good-sized fortune to bankroll his electoral integrity scam. Anyone can google around, and see that she is some big shot philanthropist. There is also Lori Grace. Her dad was the famous rich man, Oliver Grace. She has donated to VR. She is probably worth tens or hundreds of millions.

People truly need to get a copy of Citizen K to learn a lot more about this guy and his past. One of the things I can't seem to figure out through the net, something that happened after the book came out, was what his parole violation was for. Brett and Larisa never explain anything. They just keep repeating the generic line that Brett was a political prisoner.

Kimberlin never explains any of it. Brad has his hands over his ears. All we have are these few repeated lines of woe, and how they inspired the Speedway Bomber to become such an alleged humanitarian.

All we have is Larisa showing up a couple years ago claiming to vouch for him, that he was exonerated and won a huge settlement. She said Brett showed her the paperwork. Some didn't buy into her act, and even confronted her for bullying and lying. A few others predictably came up with the "If he's good enough for you Larisa, then he's good enough for me" spiel.

Brad never mentions Brett's past. He seems to be the one with the gag order, not Sibel Edmonds. He has barely admitted to Brett being a co-founder of VR. Brad basically acts like the fact that Brett Kimberlin is his sugar daddy is a non-issue, that it is a fact that needn't be heard about. That way it is easier for him to cry poverty while whining for donations for his heroic muckraking. This is why I want an intrepid reporter to figure out how much VR has raked in over the years. Joe Lauria told me some folks were trying to figure that out. But I now don't believe or trust him, not after seeing he is buddies with Wayne Madsen.

Thus the story has morphed into me being a stalker. You have become my alter-ego or vice-versa. We are Mossad, Diebold {Premier Election Solutions} or the troll in the basement with multiple personalities. Content schmontent according to them.

This is my theory based on reading Citizen K and other stuff and reflecting on all this for over a year. Kimberlin was taking heavy drugs as a youth. I'm talking LSD or maybe even crack cocaine. I am no expert on drugs. I can only imagine whether he'd be into the stuff I witnessed folks taking at Raves during my heydays. A lot of drugs can truly fock with a young person's mind. There was one girl I remember in Ireland. She was about 15 and very messed up. A friend explained that she was heavy into ecstasy, had been so for years, and that it had completely messed her up. I once heard our brains are still developing even as we approach 20. I was lucky. I didn't get into drugs too much, just pot, and I didn't even start to smoke that until I was eighteen.

{continued}

socrates said...

Ugh, sorry I deleted the rest of this post by accident. It probably wasn't too important or just more stuff I've mentioned before. Thanks again for taking a look into this. Pretty messed up stuff here, from Agent99's neonazi associations, to Brett's criminal past, to the tabloid hoaxes these clowns have been putting out all in the pursuit of suckering good-willed people out of their money.

socrates said...

Just saying I think Kimberlin has been a mad genius. It is a unique story he went through. The heavy drugs probably warped his young mind. He then used the prison time to plot out these future scams. He's found a way to not feel any guilt for the actions that led to the death of Carl DeLong. Maybe he didn't have sex with the eleven year old and figures he was just planning on her being a future wife. Maybe he was behind the murder of Julia Scyphers but felt she was trying to ruin his life, thus he was justified in pursuing that. He is both a genius and evil. He could be a pathological liar. New age lefties and libertarian, conspiracy theory leaning righties are his demographic. He is the rich man's snake oil salesman. Gotta get off the net. Take care.

socrates said...

Hi The_Last_Name_left,

You there? I'm curious about a few things. First of all, good luck with your investigating something on the side. I've tried that before, and it can pay off. I have an autographed copy of Citizen K by Mark Singer by my side. I've another reporter out there who takes me seriously. I wrote to one election integrity activist concerning Brad forwarding me copies of her personal emails unsolicited, and she told me of some rumour in the grapevine concerning that guy and drug use. I admit that's heresay, but it could explain a lot about his oversized ego and antagonistic attitude towards others with legitimate questions about his credibility. If he has nothing to hide, for example, why has he put a robots.txt block on some of his older stuff concerning the Clint Curtis hoax?

Anyway, I do realise you first went to the BradBlog to discuss health care and got unceremoniously censored. Is that how it went? Was there some other topic or posts you had made where they could claim plausible deniability? You see, Schakowsky has been one of the sponsors for the public health care bill. I haven't a clue. Are Agent99 and others trying to muddy that issue? What was that Guardian article about?

It looks like what you wrote at Wikipedia about being censored has been censored.

I notice through that link that Brad Friedman isn't a journalist. He has a bachelors of fine arts from a NY university. I wonder why he gave up on acting and directing. I do think BradBlog resembles what a right wing cell astroturfing unit would look like if it was trying to co-opt and pervert progressive politics.

There's tons of stuff at my place concerning Brad, Brett and many others they are associated with. So I'm not gonna reinvent the wheel.

One tidbit you may find interesting is that Brad can speak many different dialects. I think there is a chance Brad is some form of intelligence like Tinoire and Rivero. They could be collecting ip's and staying in touch with FBI cointelpro type places with info on their posters. That's what Hal Turner is claiming he was doing. I realise this is conjecture. There's just a very strange stench coming out of BradBlog. I think we have figured out the main origins of the bad smell. That would be all the hoaxes revolving around alleged right wing whistleblowers. There's the stench coming from Agent99, Big Dan, Plunger, and the others. There's also the Brett Kimberlin connection. I think you came up with a great point, that a convicted domestic terrorist is the last person who should be running a campaign against domestic terrorism. I also find it very fishy that we are two of the only people being vocal about these things. I think the fact that such information is being censored in the mainstream blogs is representative that these people have inside power at such places.

Finally, the more I think of the smear job on Schakowsky, the more I want her to sue these people. It's not good enough for her to just deny the lame, sensational charges because it's coming from the goofy internet. I don't like that this is a wild, wild west at times. A disgusting line has been crossed by Sibel Edmonds and Brad. Enough is enough. Is it a coincidence that Schakowsky is one of the most progressive politicians in America and is pro-Israel? You know I'm not too happy about Israel's policies towards the Palestinians. But I can also see your point how Israel is held to a much higher standard than other countries, and now we have been able to show that Brad Friedman is directly tied to neonazi ideology through his moderator. I want to see evidence for how Agent99 was a regular blogger at BradBlog, and where the announcement was ever made that she had been christened the sole moderator. It seems to just have happened over time with no explanation, with no rhyme or reason.

socrates said...

How does advocating the genocide of all Israelis help the Palestinian cause? It only reinforces the idea that Israel should expand and create as big a buffer as possible between itself and the surrounding Arab states. I think this is similar to how the Agent99, Big Dan, Plunger crap also ends up serving the interests of the fascist elements in Israel. Look at how Sept. 11th gave GW and Cheney the political whatchamacallit to start illegal wars and exponentially increase the spy industry.

These people act as if they are the Palestinians' best friends, but they are their worst enemies. This type of stuff could lead one to go tinfoil and wonder if they are actually part of the Mossad.

link

posted by Rob: The time has come to give up hope on the future of what was called Israel. Hopefully, its end will come quickly and those who were responsible for it, possibly the dumbest idea in the history of history, should go down with the ship. The key will be that when Iran hits, they do it quickly and the rest of the Arab and surrounding states join in and make sure they do not ever come back. Bomb them and keep bombing them until there are no visible signs of life.

socrates said...

I should have mentioned it before, but this was a very good entry you made on Alex Jones. Yes, you were quite correct in talking about this many months ago. You've been vindicated, so to speak. That's also a very good question you ask about how does Jones know he is getting critiqued by Stormfront types. He's a bit too aware of that milieu, ain't he, just like Plunger. The same can be asked about Brad Friedman but in reverse. How can he not be aware of the anti-semitism coming out of his moderator and "her" friends?

socrates said...

Hi TLNL, I hope you're just taking a break and all is good for you.

Since it has become very clear over the years what BradBlog truly represents, I don't feel as much of a need to go there and look for more examples exhibiting their grifting nature. But here is another example.

Brad has taken a current event, an actual real story, and twisted it into more astroturf that Sibel Edmonds is an important and sincere whistleblower. Stewart David Nozette is under investigation for selling secrets to the Israeli government. That is a definite no-no. I don't know the specifics of the case, but I am fairly sure that this has nothing to do with Sibel Edmonds. But that didn't stop Brad from making Sibel the centerpiece of the story by including a picture of her right at the top. It didn't stop Brad from once again asking for donations based on his so-called years-long coverage of the Sibel Edmonds story. Brad says that he receives no corporate or foundational funding. Perhaps someone can investigate that and see if he is lying. If so, that means Brad Friedman is committing fraud. Someone needs to find out how much money Velvet Revolution has garnered over the years from donations from kind-hearted but rich, gullible new-agers like Lori Grace. If it turns out that Brad has made a small fortune through VR, then his crying poverty at BradBlog is an outright lie.

(continued)

socrates said...

Then it gets interesting in the comments. We already know that Brad refuses to address Brett Kimberlin's history. He also refuses to address the anti-semitism that teems out of his moderator Agent99 and her friends at Big Dan's Big Blog. But that didn't stop Brad from taking the opportunity to present himself as a fighter aganist Jew hating.

TreeTop007: A Jew traitor(Ben-Ami Kadish)...

Brad: TreeTop007 - "Jew traitor"? Lovely. So in addition to being an unbelievable homophobe (see TT7's obnoxious comment thread beginning here) and teabagger, you're also an anti-Semite? Folks like you never fail to amaze. That's some good hatin' there, chief.

Brad's correct to call out TreeTop007, but it doesn't mean much when his moderator is aligned with anti-semitism herself. Now check out what another poster wrote soon after.

Doug: If someone objects to the racist, apartheid policies of the Jewish State, they are labeled "anti-semitic". If someone notices and mentions discrepancies in the official Holocaust ™ story, such as how the sacred "6 million" number hasn't changed, despite the reduction in Auschwitz official numbers from 4 million to 1-1.5 million, they are labeled "anti-semitic". If someone notices that our supposed friends in the Jewish State are heavily involved in espionage against us and sell our military secrets to China, they are labeled "anti-semitic".

So, tell me, what's so wrong with being labeled "anti-semitic"? Sounds like it is a badge of honor in recognition of one's morality and ability to see the obvious. (end of quote)

The guy provides no links, probably because his source is from Stormfront or something similar. There is no response as of yet from anyone to dispute his holocaust denial. I believe that a concerted effort is being made to make those on the Left appear as Jew haters. This same crowd is also the one who keeps plugging away at how there isn't that much of a difference between Obama and GW Bush. One last point. Maybe 5.8 million Jewish people were murdered instead of 6 million during WW2. I don't know the exact number and don't really care. But to make it seem that there hasn't been a historical push to wipe out Jewish people is wrong. In Russia they were called pogroms. Anti-semitism is not some kind of sophisticated ruse put forth by disinfo agents. It is real and must be beaten down. One can easily critique the Israeli government like we do with our own without stooping to propaganda tactics that encourage the opposite of positive social change. These are the Palestinians' worst enemies on the internet. It's almost as if they are doing the work for the bad guys in Israeli politics. This is what is referred to as concern trolling. It's not that unlike when freepers join democratic forums claiming to be liberals and progressives, when they are in actuality attempting to pull off Karl Rove-Lee Atwater type scams.

the_last_name_left said...

hiya.

I read that thread at bradblog first, then your second post. My thoughts as I read the bradblog page were exactly those you posted in your 2nd comment.

I've seen the sentiment expressed before that being "anti-semitic is the most honorable position" and "a mark of intellectual liberation" etc.

Straight out of Stromfront. It's a symptom of a particularly potent anti-semitic sentiment.

And the holocaust denial....formed around an insult which is hard to imagine better expressing contempt: Holocaust (Trademark).

I find it amazing people will stoop to the use of such phrases.....what must one be like inside to throw around ideas like that?

Before the internet I used to read a lot of books - mostly Russian History/Communism, 2nd World War, Nazism, 3rd Reich, etc.

I got on the net increasingly in the late 90s, and I started to become aware of this holocaust denial stuff. I was interested, obviously - and naiive.

So I looked into quite a lot of it eventually - and I thought it was persuasive. But that's what it is meant to be......

Thing is - it really doesn't hang together. I simply reasoned that it was crazy to imagine everything I had read (from different sources, different perspectives, different nationalities, different political ideologies, etc).....had came about from some (huge) fraud.

It winds me up when I hear "There should be an investigation" and "we should be allowed to find out the truth".

They assume, and incline the reader to imagine no investigations have ALREADY been done, that "the truth" isn't ALREADY known. It is already known. There's possibly no other historic "event" that has been so studied. Rejecting the holocaust really means rejecting everything -- the whole thing of "knowledge", records, academic objectivity, journalism, history etc.

There really isn't much room for arguing about the numbers. Well, there's plenty of room for debate about exact numbers, because the numbers are so large, and impossible to be absolutely certain about many specifics and individuals.

But, the holocaust is proven and depicted through millions of different events and the evidence pertaining to them.

Everything coalesces around the same essential facts - of a Nazi effort to exterminate jews, and slavs, "deviants", whatever.

I went and looked into all the arguments of holocaust denial I could find. I don't think there's anything in them. What they invariably are a manifestation of anti-semitism and an effort to rehabilitate nazism. It's disgusting.

It offends me personally, because of the hatred it conveys, and the political ideology it promotes. It also stands for a rejection of scholarship.....fair treatment of evidence....history....facts....all things I have a deep respect for.

Shermer was right to liken 911 Truth to holocaust denial. The similarities are striking. And the same characters are involved.
(Not that all doubters about 911 are equivalent to holocaust deniers, tho. Nor need they necessarily be be proto-fascists. But the core of 911 Troof is those things, imo, at least :) )

the_last_name_left said...

Brad's comment was interesting. He was pretty calm about it, even as he drew attention to the offender's other thread of the same(?)

Yes, good for you for saying something, Brad.

But.....errr......what about your own moderator - Agent99?

Does BigDan'sBigBlog - not exist? Do the things said at BigDan's by Agent99 and co not exist?

Dissonance. It doesn't add up.

At best, Brad doesn't understand. At worst he does.

Does he not know what his audience is on about in his comments? Does he not know what his own moderator/editor believes, promotes and condones?

So......what next? Will Brad be offering TREETOP a moderator position?

It's ridiculous.

socrates said...

Thanks for the response. You are always very adept at articulating these things. Good job also in making the disclaimer that not all truthers are anti-semitic, like I do with critiquing the Israeli government while attacking anti-semitism. It's a shame we have to keep doing that or at least every once in a while.

That sure is something else, going to the trouble of putting in the trademark logo. I can see where I might be able to type in some small numbers on my comp but not letters. There are also variations on that, like the holocost or even using dollar signs like holoco$$t. It is disgusting.


In my opinion, Brad has always tried to make it seem that he is too busy working on "real news" to be able to watch over the comments. I agree with you that it is unbelievable that he is unaware of Big Dan's Big Blog or how much of a part Agent99 plays there.

I think TreeTop is a wingnut. If so, it kind of backs up my theory that certain types of contrarians are allowed on BradBlog while true progressives and lefties are not. In that way, people like Tinoire and Agent99 represent lefties, and thinking ones like yourself are nowhere to be found. I think it's part of a campaign to make the left appear as anti-semitic. Anyone can look beneath the surface and see that BradBlog has shoved Cindy Sheehan under the bus. They have done the same to Jan Schakowsky, one of the most progressive American politicians. They have no trouble linking to conservative rags. The basic idea is being presented that there is not much difference between left and right. They want people to have total disbelief in the mainstream media. That fuels the idea that BradBlog is doing the work they refuse to do. Also ironic is how while BradBlog promotes a debilitating cynicism in media, history, and critical thinking, they want us to become dogmatic and accept that Sibel Edmonds along with intellience agents like Giraldi and Cole deserve to be taken at their words. What Brad doesn't want people to be aware of is that he has a long history of aligning himself with dubious characters including but not limited to Jason Leopold, Agent99, Ben Burch, Larisa Alexandrovna, Larry Johnson {ex-CIA} and Brett Kimberlin.

the_last_name_left said...

You're making me uneasy - compliments? ;) Thanks.

That thread at BradBlog has fallen to ed-notes and comment deletion.

Banned for violation of terms? For the use of different names?

Silly - they can use that reason whenever they like, to censor whomever and whatever they wish.

We already know they pretend different users are the same person.

They deleted "racist comment", but then banned the users for multiple IDs. Seemingly the same person posting under different names is a greater offence than overt anti-semitism and racism. Strange sort of value system at work.

(the same sort of incongruency found at Empire game-forum, where it's ok to suggest violent vigilantism, but "bashing" of the game developers is prohibited, and sharply policed.)

One difference - BradBlog did seem to reject the overt racism, and did remove it.

(Using the same process they employ to silence dissent.)

It seems to highlight how little Brad does to take care with the issue of anti-semitism. That was a good opportunity for him to explain how Treetop was simply wrong in his racism, and how mistaken he was in thinking Brad actually meant his own claims in the way TreeTop appeared to think he did. TreeTop got to Brad's place somehow. He wanted to say what he did there.

Maybe he was there only to provoke. A very useful experiment for us. :) I'm not TreeTop or any of them.

Anyway - stark point remains that Brad's moderator (and his/her Brad clique over at Big Dan's) are as guilty as TreeTop is of anti-semitism and racism.

The anti-semitism and racism that gets deleted at Bradblog is condoned, defended and championed at BigDan's.

FACT.

What appears at BigDan's, amongt the BradBlog coterie there?

Jewish this, and jewish that.

-Jewish media control. (Too much jewish religion on TV? Laughable. So what does it mean? What is that criticism, then, really?)

William Pierce.

Adolf Hitler (!)

Willis Carto.

"We the jews control America!"

The Protocols.

------------------------

TreeTop would be on message at BigDan's......but he's deleted at BradBlog.

Same ID - Agent99 - at both places. Condoning it at BigDan's, deleting it at BradBlog.

FACT.

Right?