Thursday, 22 October 2009

Rivero - Idiot

Oct 05 13:20
Terrorists could seize nuclear weapons if we fail in Afghanistan, warns Army chief

Rivero comments:
Okay, how does letting the Taliban have Afghanistan back link to terrorists getting nuclear weapons, since there are none in Afghanistan?
Rivero's never heard of Pakistan? Well, yes he has, because earlier he published a report saying
A tribal Jirga of North Waziristan on Sunday threatened to support the Afghanistan-based anti-US groups, including the Taliban, if the US drone attacks were not stopped.
Rivero seems trapped by his nationalism - the notion that national borders delineate people. They don't - at least not always, and certainly not in tribal regions where borders are bureaucratic rather than rational and historic remnants of different nations.

Whatever one thinks of the policy of the Afghan war and its encroachment into Pakistan, there is a definite rationale behind it - the fear is Pakistan's nuclear capability, exacerbated by the potential collapse of Pakistan state: Taliban-isation. How realistic is the threat of Taliban-isation of Pakistan? I don't know. Who does? I don't think Rivero does.

And does Rivero actually seek nuclear proliferation? Like many in the conspiracist world, and even wider circles, Rivero can appear to delight in Iranian acquisition of nuclear capabilities. For Rivero, seemingly anything which threatens Israel is worth supporting.....even if it is an Iranian (and therefore radical islamic) nuclear program. I don't see why Iranian nuclear capability is something to be encouraged, even accepting the obvious hypocrisy of nuclear-armed USA/UK (and maybe Israel.)

Rivero suggests USA should not support Israel in any anticipated action against Iranian nuclear program. Rivero refers to close Russian relations with Iran thus:
a war between Israel and Russia over Iran; that would be something to see!
He seems positively delighted at the prospect. I don't understand why Rivero endorses Russian protection of its ally Iran but insists American alliance with Israel is so inexplicable, dangerous, and perverse.

But, hey - maybe the Iranians performed a bloodless coup and now a cabal of Iranians are running Russian foreign policy?

What other reason could there possibly be for a superpower supporting a minor and insignificant ally with military aid? Russia and Iran know it might lead to a major conflagration with an ally of a Russian behaviour can only be explained by a cabal of Iranians running Russian foreign policy? That's the argument Rivero uses for Israeli and America alliance - but strangely not for Iranian and Russian alliance.

Likewise there's a difference in how Rivero treats the states which are not members of the NNPT (nuclear non-proliferation treaty). The non-signatories of the NNPT are India, Israel, Pakistan and North Korea. Isreal is the only one of the four without an acknowledged nuclear weapons capability - though it seems near-certain that she does possess such capability.

Presumably Israel has as much right to opt-out of the NNPT as India, NK and Pakistan? And presumably the nuclear capabilities of each and all of these countries are of concern? Obviously not, as whilst Rivero mocks the idea that "failure" in Afghanistan could lead to a greater threat from Pakistan's nuclear capability -- doubtless a huge concern for India -- it is Israel about whom he writes:
The real problem with the Middle Easy (sic) is that Israel refuses to abide by the same rules as all other nations.
All other nations? Like Pakistan, India and North Korea?

Where's the concern about these other nuclear-armed non-signatories of the NNPT? Where the concern about increasing Iranian nuclear capability? Rivero's concern is skin-deep and reveals he is more interested in condemning Israel than threats of nuclear proliferation.

Surely we can all understand why a nation would seek nuclear weapons capability - as self defence? It would be stupid to imagine Iran has absolutely no interest in such a capability. We understand the point perfectly readily over Pakistan and Indian acquisition of nukes, especially with regard to Kashmir.

The stand-off between nuclear-armed, NNPT non-signatories India and Pakistan over Kashmir is hardly something to be welcomed. Why shouldn't we be equally concerned over a potential similar stand-off developing between Iran and Israel? Too much of the discussion about Iranian nuclear development omits this. It is a reasonable cause for concern. Just as nuclear-Pakistan's fragile and combustible society falling prey to radical Islam - Talibanisation - is a reasonable concern.


socrates said...

I'm not sure Rivero is an idiot. Yes, he can be tied to idiotic claims and links. My theory is that he is a propaganda tool. I think he is a deliberate strawman. I think he is what he frames some upcoming war with Iran that has been pushed for years as being imminent. Rivero is the ultimate distraction.

I found some interesting links, interesting in that they are merely about the bullshite astroturfing an inane Jooish global conspiracy theory.

At Desertpeace, Rivero is published as saying Jesus was not Jewish and Palestinians have direct lineage to him. It's a clever Rivero way of saying the Jews are still killing Jesus. Wasn't it the Romans who killed Jesus? Jesus wasn't Jewish?

I found that link through a website called New World Order 101. They also have a post titled, "The Frankfurt School and how it destroyed western culture via a Marxist Communist Ideology." I believe these elements are all part of the same scam to drive the ideals of socialism into the ground. According to NWO 101, the frankfurt School's goals included the following:

1. The creation of racism offences.
2. Continual change to create confusion
3. The teaching of sex and homosexuality to children
4. The undermining of schools’ and teachers’ authority
5. Huge immigration to destroy identity
6. The promotion of excessive drinking
7. Emptying of churches
8. An unreliable legal system with bias against victims of crime
9. Dependency on the state or state benefits10. Control and dumbing down of media
11. Encouraging the breakdown of the family

The truth is many of the members of the Frankfurt School were Jewish. They were forced to leave Nazi Germany and many relocated to America. They were looking forward to this transition. However, what they found on their arrival was that the West was some form of cultural wasteland with heavy ties to the Military-Industrial Complex, inequality, and a culture industry. In short, these were the greatest sociologists and social-psychologists of the twentieth century. is one of the most insidious Jew-hating websites I have come across. They link to a place called Here are some of that place's latest title entries.

Obama’s Homosexual Agenda & The Jews Behind It

Zionist Jewish Mind Control - A Case Study # 128

Is Alex Jones A Zionist Shill?..Controversy Swirls

Goals Of The New World Order Jews

Here is a page of theirs titled, "The Jewish Question Revisited."

It's fairly disgusting stuff. What I find even more interesting is that the layout of this website is very similar to one disinformation writer "Fintan Dunne" used to carry around. I sincerely believe that an insidious network of propagandists are all over the internet. Over the last couple years I have tried to prove this to the best of my abilities. I think because I was successful at showing a high probability that I am correct, that a sophisticated cybersmear script was put in place against me. I have proven that was done. Now why would a nobody like me have been attacked to this extent, if I hadn't been able to figure out this hornet's nest?

the_last_name_left said...

"Idiot" is meant to just make it clear that he is forced to adopt some obviously very stupid positions - to maintain his agenda.

Like his rhetorical question concerning Afghan nukes - he knows about Pakistani nukes, after all.

But they disappear as necessary - when attacking the supposed logic of the war in Afghanistan/Pakistan, for example, or when criticising Israel for not signing up to the NNPT.

He's either a total idiot.......or something else. ;)

All that NWO/Jewish/Marxist conspiracy stuff is really what led me to my present conception of the 911 movement, and it's part in a much wider propaganda effort.

You've had an education in sociology, so you can quickly see the stuff is rubbish. Most people don't.

But yeah - the Frankfurt school thing, cultural marxism, zionism - they all get wrapped up into the grand conspiracy.

It's essentially a fundamental, and crude attack on the left (and jews).

I don't believe most people are aware quite what they're buying into when they subscribe to such views. That's the art and effect of the propgandist, I guess.

The things you identify are prevalent throughout the 911/patriot movement, and the kookier fringe of the far-right.

But the real problem is that there is a refusal to recognise it - let alone to counter it, and expel it.

Two explanations why it is so ignored? 1 - complacency/ignorance, or, 2 - shared belief in such views.

I think such views are genuinely and widely held throughout 911 Truth, patriot movement, etc.

socrates said...

I understand what you mean. His propaganda is not as sophisticated as he would like it to be. One can only be an effective strawman, if my theory is correct that he is a paid propagandist, if it's difficult to find holes in his presentation. He wants his Jew hate and right wing views draped in progressive clothes to appear as a natural articulation of a big population grouping. I'm not saying there isn't significant numbers of anti-semites. I'm not saying there aren't right wing conspiracy theorists. I do see your point how he corners himself into untenable contradictions. Like when you asked him to decide whether the Iraq War was for oil or for the Joos. That one clearly rankled the disinfo fakes at the Unofficial forum. That was when they went full spectrum idiocy with the fake lawyer and fake spiel about us being the same person etc. and so forth. Thank God I saved the proof of all that before it was deleted. Sure, Rivero is more sophisticated than the dumbass crap that Tinoire has pumped out. But the stakes are much higher in regards to Rivero's spiel. He is tied to Alex Jones. He is tied to Free Republic. He is tied to the Joos did it. He is the right wing tie to the zany idea that nazi ideology is not anti-semitic.

My sociology helps to a certain extent. But I think most people who have been in the same milieu area as us can see the contradictions. I think how my education has helped me the most in exposing internet convolution is that I understand academic principles. I know the difference between opinion and fact. I understand the need to take a devil's advocate approach with research. It clearly has helped me to understand the concept of right woos left. That is where folks like ourselves are probably doing our best work. Those subtleties that we recognise are probably not picked up as easily by most people. Folks tend to have a limited understanding of the differences between fair play capitalism and planned markets. Most people seem to lack a proper understanding of history. The other problem is that the milieu has been rigged. I think more people would be aware of the general stench coming out of the blogosphere if there truly was freedom of speech and association. That's where the milieu ends up being idiot or something else as you put it. They are talking up the blogosphere as being democratic when it is anything but that. Thus the cards are basically stacked for newbies and fence-sitters. Case in point would be BradBlog. The milieu by which one comes across Brett Kimberlin Productions is one in which no dissent is allowed, all under the guise of their being part and parcel of freedom of speech and association. Contradictions or legitimation crises as the Frankfurt School would put it flourish on the so-called alternative internet media.

socrates said...

TLNL, there are a strange couple posts out of Big Dan over at BradBlog. I know, big surprise not.

Check this out:

Dems: CIA may have misled Congress five times since 2001

The CIA may have misled Congress at least five times since 2001, two Democrats on the House Intelligence Committee said Tuesday.

Intelligence subcommittee Chairwomen Jan Schakowsky (D-Ill.)................

[link provided]

Ummmmmm.....Jan Schakowsky (D-Ill.) ring any bells???

Am I missing something? This appears to mean Big Dan is supporting the CIA. I guess that makes sense when a CIA man named Giraldi has been involved pimping the Sibel Edmonds story.

Then a few posts later Big Dan started ripping into Alex Jones. Is that a new thing for him to do? Maybe it falls in line with neonazis calling Jones a "ZioNazi Joo shill."

Another associate of the Agent99 crowd named Grizzly Bear Dancer wrote of "the Illuminati/New World Order own and run America." He didn't mention the Joos. I guess he doesn't have to with his buddies Big Dan and Plunger taking care of that angle.

the_last_name_left said...


Are you getting at the thing that Dan and the rest, following their accusations against Shakowsky, must believe the CIA are getting a bum-rap from Shakowsky etc?

"How dare the traitor Israeli-spy Shakowsky undermine the great American CIA!"

Is that what you're getting at?

I spent some of today looking into David Icke and his connections to the far-right.

Icke, like Alex Jones, has become increasingly popular amongst the far-right because of the effective equivalence of "Iluminati" with "jewish world conspiracy".

Icke and Jones do in fact know that the far-right treat their claims as vindication of fascist racism against jews.

Both Icke and Jones are part of a crossover point - between fascism and conspiracy, new-age kookiness, paranoia and "revisionist" history.

And even the green movement........which is interesting considering Brad Friedman's branching out into it.

I missed a couple of posts yours further back - one of which was about "patriot" movement, and my apparent mischaracterisation of it.

Doubtless there's more to it than a few words from me could do justice to............but......I think I'm right: my conception makes sense, and it is validated by Dave Neiwert's stuff imo. There's quite a major thread of Christian Identity in the militia movements.......and CI is essentially a christian fundamentalist fascism. A major confusion over anti-semitism for CI is that they believe "white aryans" are the "real" jews, and when they retake Jerusalem or whatever, then the "Rapture" will happen. I think. (I don't care at all about religious beliefs, so it's difficult for me to follow and comprehend)

And, as ever, I don't mean my generalisations to be descriptions of all the complexities and varieties. I'm just trying to convey the essence and direction of connections......the overlaps.....the kernel of the ideas which lead these groups to coalesce.

the_last_name_left said...

Because there have to be reasons why the far-right takes a positive interest in David Icke and ALex Jones etc. There has to be a conjunction of ideas somewhere to sustain the crossover appeal. That's one of my main interests.....and something I am quite good at, I think - by my own standards, I mean. I like to see how ideas interelate.....the connections between them....the common assumptions that are usually only implicit.......the unspoken, unacknowledged, unconcious implications of such assumptions.

People often say that I put words in their mouth. But if someone is saying "2+2"......I can perfectly legitimately say they are saying "4"

I can also assert they must believe "4+4=8" etc.

That's why the left/right paradigm is real, even if sometimes difficult to pin down.

David Icke pisses me off. Though I find it funny too. Reading his stuff it's like I am back in the Middle Ages.......and to see his popularity! Doubtless, he does a good job at exaggerating his popularity, because everyone loves a winner......but.....his stuff is prevalent, and at core, is exactly the same stuff that Alex Jones, Rivero, BigDan and BradBlog espouse. And Stormfront. It's all a big either "jews", "illuminati", "the NWO". The words are interchangeable......they are placeholders for......what?

So far as the far-right is concerned, they are all placeholder terms for "jews".

Alex Jones, Icke, Rivero and the rest doubtless attract people who would find it abhorrent to be considered as "fascists". But we're in a post-holocaust world - they know what they are being associated with, and they will vehemently oppose such associations. They don't feel they are part of all that. But neither did a lot of Germans in 1930s - and Germans didn't even have the history of Nazism as a guide - as their fellow-travellers of today do. So the gullibility is all the greater today, and all the more entrenched and dangerous.

This has been going through my head all day - as it has before:

If you browse in the shelves that, in American bookstores, are labeled New Age, you can find there even Saint Augustine, who, as far as I know, was not a fascist. But combining Saint Augustine and Stonehenge -- that is a symptom of Ur-Fascism.

I don't properly understand what Umberto Eco means there - I don't know St Augustine much. But........I think I understand exactly what he means in some sense, one which I'd find very difficult to communicate.

But Eco was surely aiming at the exact thing which brings a confluence of New-Ageism and fascism.......the crossover between Icke and the far-right......Alex Jones and Stromfront.....

It's beyond me to properly describe. But I don't think Eco did a very good job either - lol.

the_last_name_left said...

Then there's the gold fetishism of Ron Paul.....

Isn't the gold fixation thing absurd? It's a fetish - idolatry. And to imagine it is only the material essence of what constitutes "money" that is the critical quality and relationship for society! I can't imagine a more ridiculous idea. The Troofers hate it when I tell them that Senator PornRaul has $00,000s invested in gold and precious metal mining corporations.

Nothing wrong with RonPaul taking advantage of globalisation and the internationalisation of capital.

There's apparently nothing intrinsically wrong with the highly principled RonPaul enriching himself off of the backs of poorly paid miners in S Africa, the Phillippines, Central Africa, wherever.......

Just like American (and European) nationalists see nothing wrong in extracting profit from the developing world, even as they whine about the export of domestic jobs to lower-wage and more exploitative economies.

Ron Paul said american workers were "overpaid". The Troofers and Paulites hate acknowledging this.....I've never seen it stated explicitly. I read it in an interview on some obscure website that was linked to by.......Mike Rivero.

The interview was touted as a Paul's election campaign.

But in it he laid into workers for being overpaid - especially Michigan auto-workers........he said the pay-rates were "crazy" and that that was why the US auto-industry and the wider american economy was in such dire-straits. He blamed the Unions too, of course.

To a point I agree with him totally. (though I see it as all workers are being underpaid) He's "right".....under market terms USA workers really are "overpaid" compared to chinese, phillippinos, mexicans, poles, Ukrainians, whatever.

But it totally misses the point. (Because it accepts the fundamentals of neo-liberalism and places financialism as the single unassailable central human organising principle)

Regardless - the interview has totally disappeared off of the internet. Even though it is an accurate depiction of RonPaul's position it was "disappeared"...........indeed, it disappeared exactly because it was an accurate reflection of RonPaul's position and as such was harmful to his political positioning and rhetoric.

That episode disturbed me. Rivero trumpeted the article.....then it disappeared. Rivero had stopped via his robots.txt.....and the website disappeared the RonPaul article.

The man who "tells it like it is" for so many "patriots" had told it like it was, but then retracted the entire thing.

I think someone does need to stand up in America and say that Americans are RELATIVELY overpaid. But who will get elected saying that? And, obviously, no Capitalist like RonPaul appealing to domestic Nationalism is going to be found saying it. And that's why they deleted it?

Oooops rambling. ;)

Ah knickers - gotta split this into 3 posts now.........

socrates said...

Precisely on the Big Dan making an odd comment concerning Schakowsky (it's spelled Sch...) and the CIA. Come on, that's peacenik politics 101 to hate the CIA. If someone I don't like makes a good point, I'm not going to diss them for that specific detail. That's a right wing meme by the way with Plamegate and the weapons of mass destruction. Some shell game. Some enigma where one is meant to not know who messed up, whether the Bush Admin or the CIA. I say both! And no one at BradBlog told Dan something rational like that just because there are questions surronding their lesbian fairy tale doesn't have anything to do with the other story. Big Dan was conflating. Outrageous more than odd, in my book.

Once I heard David Icke was into reptiles or whatever the fock, I tuned him out. That was one of the first things I heard about him, in addition to his globalist conspiracy chatter. Look, there is a conspiracy. Even C. Wright Mills agreed. But the conspiracy is to be found in institutions, not necessarily people like some mythical illuminatti or Joos theory. Get rid of gerrymandering. Get rid of money deciding elections. Promote true democracy. Get rid of the electoral college. Find a way to make the American educational system embrace critical thinking. Those kinds of things will enable the country to improve. I could list a million more examples, but I think you know what I'm getting at. Talking up Masons and ufos is gonna turn off the regular Janes and Joes from any truthful points there are about consolidated power structures. That's why I believe people like Icke are either grifters or paid disinfo.

Same with Bradblog. Grifting, paid disinfo, or both.

The point I made before on the other thread was that while there is a right wing group that hates Jewish people and buy into that Big Dan-Plunger nonsense, there is also a big chunk of wingnuts who embrace Israel. Different nuts for different wings. I do think you're onto something about the convergence of new age, global conspiracy theories, and fascism. With guys like Rivero and Jones, it's to be expected. But Brad Friedman? One of the best things I did was show you the Agent99-Big Dan world and how they are a big part of BradBlog. Brett Kimberlin has been going after the New Age market since his early twenties. He used to launder his drug smuggling money through a health food restaurant. His whole spiel is new age. That's where he goes for his big donations from wealthy people like Lori Grace who teaches tantric sexuality. Bush is over? Man, that dude has zero skills as a singer. Just look at how he tried to con his way out of prison. He is going after gullible New Age lefties who won't understand that he and Brad use right wing sources.

Right wingnuts can see how the economy has been trashed by their own side. Back in the day they could blame it on Carter. They could adore Reagan. Even a moron can see that GW Bush and Cheney were evil. They can see that there is something fishy going on. And they no longer have the stinky liberals to scapegoat. So these grifters and conmen fill in the gaps. It's just your basic evolution of the John Birch Society demographic. What up[sets me the most is when fakes like Brad, Brett, Agent99, and Tinoire represent themselves as lefties. They are not. Huffington is another one. She is an opportunist. She used to be a Republican. But then she smelled which way the wind was blowing and went to the liberal side. Now she must be raking in serious dough. HuffingtonPost appears to be the most widely read blog on the internet. Before her, it was Markos Moulitsas of the Daily Kos gobbling up that market. And guess what. He says the CIA is a liberal institution he'd have no problem working for. Give me a break.

socrates said...

The dollar has been sinking for years. The job market is shrinking. If you can no longer blame the communists (i.e. liberals and progressives), who else is there to blame? I'm not surprised that Rivero has resorted to robots.txt to cover up any mistakes in judgement made. Brad Friedman is doing the same. The thing about pushing gold probably relates to the conspiracy theories surrounding the Federal Reserve. There's one that claims JFK was killed because he wanted to get rid of it. There are others that say he was killed for trying to get the CIA under control. Now this is where I have trouble with so-called debunkers. They seem to debunk everything as if it were a game. Have you ever looked into the JFK assassination? Any thoughts on that one? There clearly seemed to be something going on in the grassy knoll. One way outrageous tinfoil theories get believed in by many is because the debunkers seem to be anything but openminded, but rather are predisposed to argue against every conspiracy theory there is. The Iraq War was started due to a conspiracy. There are a lot of bad things that are going on behind our collective backs. That's why many, including myself, believe that there is paid disinfo. Heck, just look at what Cointelpro did. If that hadn't been proven as fact, debunkers would try to say it was just more kookiness.