Tuesday, 28 July 2009

ProgressiveIndependent.com - SHAM?

ProgressiveIndependent.com (PI) is either a complete SHAM, or so befuddled as to be entirely useless, and thereby functions as a SHAM.

They've sponsored WhatReallyHappened.com, are linked to by people such as DesertPeace blogger, and they hold their domain registration details secret behind GoDaddy's proxy registrar. They're run by someone called Tinoire.....apparently a former military intelligence officer whom worked in the jungles of Colombia on behalf of Uncle Sam. Tinoire supported market ideologue and neo-liberal fundamentalist RonPaul in the last Presidential elections. (Thanks to Socrates for some of this information.)

Hardly the profile of a "leftwing" or progressive outfit, is it? And yet, here is what progressiveindependent.com claim about themselves:
...a member-moderated political discussion board for Progressives.....

Our vision is to shift the political center leftward to counteract the rightwing drift our country has been on for the last 40 years.
Leftward? How can close association with WhatReallyHappened.com be considered "leftward"? They mean "leftward" towards WRH's contributors like Curt Maynard, Alex Jones, DesertPeace, Ernst Zundel, Christopher Bollyn, American Free Press, Willis Carto, Frank Toben, Erich Fromm, Arthur Topham? Funny sort of "progressives".......

PI claims:
One goal is to providing the theoretical foundation for an entirely new Progressive American political movement. (SIC)
That 'entirely new Progressive American political movement' would be composed of fascism, ultra-nationalism, racism, anti-semitism and holocaust denial then? What's exactly "progressive" about any of that?
PI: This is a member-moderated LEFTIST site created to combat the growing propaganda from the corporate-owned Republicans and Democrats.......
LEFTIST???? WTF is possibly "left" about it? There's absolutely *nothing* leftist about it. It's a SHAM.

I suggest PI is part of an organised effort to dupe people: part of a far-right effort to deceive people, with the intent of promoting the ideology of the far-right, whilst masquerading as something else - in the case of PI, pretending to be "leftists".

Such deception serves several purposes, notably to provide a means of insinuating right-wing propaganda and themes into discourse (under cover of being 'progressives'/'leftists'), whilst also providing a means to recruit members for the far-right by identifying potential members, and providing a direct route of contact through personal messages, etc.

I know people find this claim hard to believe at first, but just consider how PI's sponsorship of WhatReallyHappened and WRH's support of Curt Maynard, holocaust denial, anti-semitism, ultra-nationalism squares with what PI claims? This claim, by PI, for example:
If you are a liberal who can't stand socialists... you will not feel comfortable here, nor do we want you here.
If that's true, why were they sponsoring whatreallyhappened.com? Why were they supporting RonPaul's candidacy? They're either completely befuddled, or a deceitful SHAM.

PI claims:
Since PI’s inception we’ve banned 9 posters, not counting obvious trolls. ALL were banned for infracting the spirit of our rules.
However, they banned me after my initial posting, asking who owned ProgressiveIndependent.

Asking who owns PI is trolling? Even though ownership is a central issue to "leftists"? Why did they find that so offensive? I hadn't even started to ask them why they were so tight with Rivero and how they justified sponsoring his far-right views.


the_last_name_left said...

PI links page include the following links:
DesertPeace: A very thoughtful blog run by an Active Peace/Civil Rights Worker in Jerusalem, Israel... Aiming to establish a just and lasting peace between Israel and Palestine, while at the same time continue the struggle against racism and for peace throughout the world.

Hmmm - that's one of putting it.

If it were true, DesertPeace would oppose Rivero's promotion of racism. As would PI. But they don't. SHAM.

Serendipity: Based on a libertarian (in the sense of J.S.Mill) perspective and is opposed to Fascism, Zionism, Capitalism, the New World Order and all who secretly work to cause wars for their own advantage.

Hmmm - and what about their holocaust denial?

What Really Happened: The History the government & lobbyists hope you never learn. News from around the world, updated daily. Excellent site with excellent historical archives.

Excellent site!? Nevermind the promotion of racists like Curt Maynard, fascists like Willis Carto, Toben, Fromm, the NoMoreWarsForisrael conference etc etc etc?

And as for WRH's excellent history - do they mean WRH's repeated use of the LIE that Ariel Sharon said "We the Jews control America!"? (A quote clearly fabricated by a hardline Islamic palestinian organisation, and one that appears again and again in anti-semitic and fascist diatribes)

Is this really the sort of content that PI imagines makes it "left" and "socialist"? How about a single link to some proper socialism? How about a link to the marxism library?

It's a SHAM.

socrates said...

Dude, one quick note. You listed Erich Fromm as being on a list of fascists. You got the name wrong. Erich Fromm was a great thinker. Please edit that. I think you got the first name wrong. Fromm sounds right, but Erich was a good guy.

the_last_name_left said...


the_last_name_left said...

LOL - whooops - I meant Paul Fromm - the canadian neo-nazi.

My bad.

socrates said...

Hey, real time blogging! Dude, I followed the same path as you. I checked into GoDaddy. The use of proxies has picked up since people like us started utilising whois. You do understand that I have been getting cybersmeared and attacked, that it accelerated after we hooked up? Tinoire makes me sick to my stomach. She is affiliated with Velvet Revolution! Lophofo's workplace got a strange phone call from someone purporting to be ex-intelligence. We nailed a disinfo ring. You combine all our stuff, and the picture is clear to see, imho. It's just a matter of people seeking out our best materials. They need to go through some archives and see for themselves. My story is the truth. Banned without making one post at Rigorous Intuition. Cybersmeared. Treated like dirt. Threatened. Just for having the gall to like forums and posting. I never use sock puppets. These people are sick. Gotta go. I'll be back. Good job.

socrates said...

"Asking who owns PI is trolling?"

That question had nothing to do with why you got banned. It had all to do with a sophisticated cybersmear script put in place against me. Just check out Tinoire's post closely.

"Mothers Against Chemtrails Hi to all 19 of your pseudonyms"

She wrote that on August 30th, 2007. Do the math. I can come to no other conclusion than that Tinoire is a fascist bitch paid to mess with democratic processes on the internet. She banned me for critiquing Jew hate on her own site. That was before I realised that she is in bed with Rivero. I busted a poster named Virgil using the derogatory term Jewboy. I'm surprised you haven't figured out yet that I am central to this discussion. That may make me sound like I have a big ego. But it's the truth. You got banned from PI just mere months after I had started going after Michael Rivero, after may41970 brought that WRH Unofficial shit into my life. Cop on, laddie.

socrates said...

Dude, why you spamming the blog with videos?

Anyway, Here's some recent drama queen action from Tinoire.

cached link

To her "commie" friend Chlamor back in 2008:

I love you like a younger brother but I can't take this anymore. What I've
been doing comes at too great a price to my peace of mind and safety to let
anyone belittle people who see things differently and alienate them instead
of working to educate them patiently.

I'm losing friends left and right mortally and you piss off too many of the
people we're trying to reach AS WELL as many of the people working with us
who you assume back you for your conclusions but don't because of your

Thursday, a close friend was found duct-taped all over his body and floating
in an Austin Lake. My other dear friend is now front page on CAMERA'S
website and a leading target for the IDF. While I may love you for
supporting their ideas and their fight, I can't tolerate the way you prevent
more people from crossing over to our side.

You and I share the same views on what's wrong with this country and what
changes we want but we don't share the same views on how to bring people to
our side. I feel it's best you not post at PI where you seem to take more
glee in stirring up the pot than converting anyone, not unless you can
seriously change your tolerance level.

You live in the relative safety of American comfort where you haven't pulled
dead family members out of ditches, dead from political reprisals which is
something I had to do as a child in Haiti. You and I don't mesh at PI and
I'm determined, now more than ever, to get it back on track as an antiwar
site. I need you to either work with me towards that end or go for it your
way at PopIndy or your own blog. I've talked about this at length with
Leftchick and we both feel the same.

If you want to discuss this, please write back or call me so we can find a
middle ground.

It's not just you. I turned off AE's account without even a note and will
turn off any other accounts that aren't on the same sheet of music.



Pretty funny stuff. Only because I don't believe it. Probably more like she sat in an air-conditioned cubicle making posts on the internet. She was military intelligence. Rivero worked for the largest military contractor. Do the math, good people. It's a rigged internet. Tinoire's got a bit of a Brett Kimberlin way of spinning the blarney. Pulling dead family members out of a ditch as a child in Haiti. Sure thing, Tinoire. Or was that an idea spurred on by something she read in a military intelligence manual?

socrates said...

Posted by Tinoire

"My favorite news site in the world, www.whatreallyhappened.com, linked to us today! Some of you may not know it because any mention of it is unfairly forbidden at DU due to their brutal truth about the Palestinian Nabka (catastrophe). I'd encourage anyone who doesn't already to check it daily, there's so much news there, it's amazing.

Thank you Michael Rivero! What you've done for the Progressive Movement over the years is immeasurable!"

the_last_name_left said...

Strange to find such gushing praise of Rivero, from such a leftie.


Incidentally, I checked the Wayne Madsen page, which Tinoire also gushingly linked to.

As well as what you'd pointed about his past in ONS, NSA etc, I noticed he had a 2003 book about George Bush published by Dandelion (Carol Adler).

Remember them? S Boyle had included them in her Rivero piece - suggesting they were connected to Grand Dominion/BankIndex.

They were to publish Rivero's (still unpublished) book, too.

I have found a few posts about them - Dandelion - accusing them of cheating on their royalty payments, selling books without authorisation, etc.

Maybe nothing, but it is yet another seemingly incestuous relationship between all these people.

Her bio includes : Her business experience includes co-ownership of a Palm Beach, FL public relations company......

Same as BankIndex/GrandDominion etc - Palm Beach? Certainly Florida. Why didn't they name this PR firm?

Anyway - I'm not sure what Madesn is doing hitching up with Dandelion, which seems to publish a pot-pourri of new-age crap. And Sherman Skolznick is another of their published authors. If I was a writer, seeking publication, I'd have to be desperate to use Dandelion, considering their output. I struggle to see how one could publish Skolznick without getting sued tbh. Unless Skolznick's stuff was true.......which I find simply incredible.

It's plain weird all these people keep showing up through all these different connections.

I thought America was a big place.......

the_last_name_left said...

Oh - and Dandelion's roll-of-honour includes Kurt Nimmo, originator of a "Barbara Olson still alive" claim.

Nimmo was writing for PrisonPlanet.

Small world. Sheesh.

the_last_name_left said...

ooops my bad - it was tom flocco that claimed barabara Olson was still alive - *not* Kurt Nimmo.

Nimmo stopped publishing his blog, because, he claimed, he was getting leaned-on, receiving death-threats etc.......from......"zionists":

"In the case of the threatening phone call made to my place of work, I have a good idea who it is -- members of a local chapter of Betar, a Zionist youth organization. It is really of no importance how I know this. As for the hijacking of my name, that of my wife, and numerous death threats, I am fairly certain it is, as well, Zionists, who are angered, possibly to the point of violence, by my commentary and well-researched indictment of both Zionists and their political allies in this country."

the_last_name_left said...

Carol Adler / Dandelion Books references at rip-off report:

DO NOT buy or support Dandelion Books. If you are an author, DO NOT go to Dandelion Books. You WILL be abused, used, conned and paid NO royalties.


'By deception she doeth business.'


socrates said...

These aren't natural connections. It's goofy astroturf. I'm gonna pray for these folks to witness Jesus in their french toast. I think you're onto something with the Bank Index and Dandelion crap. You must remember how the WRH Unofficial Forum crescendoed into lunacy with that fake lawyer claiming we had slandered such upstanding business and community leaders. They must be very scared of any type of awareness growing about the insidious internet activities. Otherwise, the zaniness claiming we are Mossad and the same person never would have taken place. I mean, that crap took off after I had done my schtick on Rivero, then you came in with your stuff on Bank Index et al.

Hey, I was doing some googling while figuring out how to end this post. Here is Tinoire saying she registered Republican and voted for Ron Paul in the primaries.

"I reached the same conclusion before the New Year and already registered Republican."

So many disinfo tools, and too little time in the day to figure them all out. So who is Stan Goff? He wrote on Counterpunch that he is from North Carolina. I found an Amazon review by a "Tinoire" on another seemingly fake lefty named William Rivers Pitt in 2003. Tinoire's profile said she was from Raleigh, North Carolina. Hmmm.

Wow, a quick search shows Goff is another ex-military blogger who is a socialist just like Tinoire! I'm just gonna go back to the ronaldreagan.com forum Tinoire posted she was {cough} military intelligence. North Carolina sounds familiar.

{from 2003} "Yes I was a soldier and am recently retired. I spent 20 years in the military and my time was split between Carson, Hood, Meade, Augsburg, Berlin and the Pentagon with all the obligatory exercised at Wildeflicken, NTC, and Reforger. I was in Military Intelligence and kept a very watchful eye on the Soviets."

No North Carolina in there, but here's the link to amazon.com where Tinoire claimed to used to live there. I doubt this was a different Tinoire. So did Tinoire basically out herself as being a spook? It appears that way to me, or else she wouldn't be so quiet about her work with military intelligence except for the one time mentioning it on some right wing forum in a lame attempt to gain brownie points from Reagan Republicans.

the_last_name_left said...

My thinking is that if you keep going on these lines, whilst you'll generate some misses, eventually some structure will emerge. Well, it already has.......but you know what I mean. And maybe someone else will have another piece of the jigsaw, which they can't understand unless they see what you're saying.

It's very frustrating.......having all these disparate bits of info. You know it will take an age to explain to anyone else? I mean, I don't know all the people you mention.....it can be confusing.

Have you tried doing a visual expression of it? A picture of the people linked to everyone else? It can really help - yourself and others, like me. I'd like a visual image of all the connections you've made - would you make one?

socrates said...

Stan Goff is tied to Tinoire. I thought I was doing a better job focusing on what you can relate to. Velvet Revolution is linked to Tinoire. Same as Rivero. I think you are worrying too much, since the nail has already been hammered in. Brett Kimberlin and Brad Friedman run Velvet Revolution. This isn't rocket science. We have done a good job. Nonetheless, what has been offered can easily be followed up by anyone.

the_last_name_left said...

well, stuff can always be made clearer and better?

no criticism intended......just a wish to make everything as clear as possible. I think visual maps are powerful - especially for complex relationships. Brainmaps and all that - they work really well to organise information - for one's self if nothing else. I know it would help me..... :)

I did go looking into Brett Kimberlin - your page at allaircraft was perhaps the most interesting. But there's so many names - it's difficult to follow, that's all I'm saying. You have to remember that you already know what you're saying - the rest of us don't necessarily. I certainly can't easily digest all those names - that's all I'm saying. Of course, it's only a suggestion - no criticism intended. :)

socrates said...

I don't have any artistic graphs I can come up with. If you read through the Kimberlin stuff and have a question, I'll do my best. Maybe I didn't phrase it correctly. There aren't a million names to decipher. We have the core list of hacks. You don't need to understand every connection I do and vice versa. For example, I haven't spent too much time at WRH or Maynard or any of that rubbish. What I can add to your wisdom is that the moderator of BradBlog who runs Velvet Revolution with Brett Kimberlin is affiliated with the Rivero-Tinero crowd. I think NoWarsForIsrael, Plunger, those types dominate a small blog called Big Dan's Big Blog. I shouldn't have to spell things out much more than I have. The nail has been hammered in. The truth is literally out there.

the_last_name_left said...

I don't mean to be patronising - I'm sorry if you feel I have been.

It's just that an image - a relationship map - is very powerful. Yes, it's crude, but it has a power of its own for that. And we're talking about getting through to people who don't have time to wade through a lot of detail. Myself for instance :) I'm sure it would help me understand.....and I'm sure it would others. And that's what's needed, isn't it?

People relate to faces better than anything else. I know it's silly, but I do think it'd be worthwhile.....

Anonymous said...


Do you or do you not believe the United States government and Israel were behind 9-11? Yes or no?

the_last_name_left said...


I certainly don't think MIHOP is sustainable. There's no evidence for it.

The claim about LIHOP is more sustainable - but can anyone provide good evidence for it, above and beyond proving Bushco's negligence? No.

MIHOP implicitly denies arab nationalism - its rejection of american imperialism and support for authoritarian anti-democratic regimes - in Saudi, for example. It denies the Arab view of problems caused by American support for Israel. It denies the surely genuine desire by radical Islam to throw off western hegemony etc.

Do those things have to be "created" by Al CIA-da? Rubbish - they already exist.

Would they pose no threat without Al-CIA-da? No.

Does radical islam believe in, and support AQ? Yes - to some degree, absolutely.

Disregard such things at your peril, imo.