After the holocaust museum attack in Washington, I thought I'd repost something I wrote a while back, and which someone (SOcrates) brought back to my attention.
911 Troof is protesting heartily about being fingered as part of a far-right threat to america via the Holocaust Museum perpetrator's connections to 911 Truth Movement. But that isn't the extent of the accusation. I've been saying for years that the 911 Troof Movement has real and important connections with the far-right and organised fascism. And btw - whenever I try telling Troofers about it, they respond with outrage. Just like they do over being connected to Vonn Brunn, the Holocaust Museum attacker, and just like you'd expect them to do, if what I say is true.
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"911 Troof" - compromised by fascism
911 Troof movement is deeply compromised by organised fascism. 911 Troof is used by fascism both as propaganda outlet, and as recruitment vehicle.
This dark underbelly of 911 Troof explains many things about "the movement" - how it has lost hold of its rationalism, how it has swung to the right, how it's become riven with anti-semitism and dogma.
I'd suggest a very visible example of the results of such corruption are the pictures of Alex Jones' brownshirting of Michelle Malkin.
Jones and his gang accused Malkin of fascism, for the obvious reasons. Yet elsewhere Alex Jones gets delerious about his own lust for an Israeli Wall, that he desperately wants across the mexican border. At least Malkin based her authoritarianism on what she considers severe risks of terrorism. Jones authoritarianism is based on the threat of immigration!
And Jones employs Mike Rivero - they share a broadcaster, GCN, and a sponsor - Midas Gold (both of which are owned by the same person, Ted Anderson, whom AJ has as a guest - where they pretend Anderson is a financial correspondent when he's really running his adverts for gold. What an ethic, eh?)
So as Jones brownshirts Malkin for her supposed fascism, Alex is in cahoots with Mike Rivero.
Rivero had Curt Maynard on his radio show. Curt Maynard IS a fascist - he's a national socialist - nazi. His websites are full of vicious racist diatribes - he exploits and promotes hate.
Rivero links to Maynard. Rivero links to nazi propaganda - without explaining it is nazism, and without condemning it. He promotes it. There are many examples of Rivero's promoting racism and fascism whilst deliberately hiding the racist and fascist sources. And no - he can't plead ignorance.
Going back to Alex, he uses "Big" Jim Tucker - who is a longtime associate of Willis CArto. Indeed, Carto was the publisher of The SPotlight - which published Tucker's stuff on the Bilderberger group.
Tucker still works at Carto's American Free Press. And Alex Jones makes extensive use of him - on the Bilderbergs. He's in Endgame, for example.
Willis Carto is really something - and Jones works with his longtime associate. OR associateS? And Rivero, who plugs Curt Maynard's filth.
This is just the tip of the iceberg - organised fascism has been deliberately infiltrating, exploiting, and promoting 911 Troof. Indeed - much of 911 Troof comes straight from the propaganda organs of professional fascists: willis carto, for example, with his American Free Press (which just happens to have the same initials as Agence France Press. just coincidence. sure.) AFP had Bollyn - a lot of 911 conspiracy claims came through him. He was also part of a plan by AFP to give "positive coverage" to Hugo Chavez, if Chavez would bankroll AFP!!! The ethics of AFP journalists, eh? The same journalists - presumably the same ethics? - are the ones bringing you 911 "TROOF". And don't they claim the mainstream are press whores? Even when they themselves are whoring their coverage towards Venezuela?
And doesn't 911 Troof love to ask "Qui Bono"?
Well, fascism has benefited greatly. 911 Troof should be very prod of itself for that achievement. Through 911 conspiracism fascism has managed to get its propaganda into the leftwing. Masquerading as non-partisan 911 conspiracism has allowed fascism to publish even amongst the left. That's been a great success for fascism. Qui Bono? Even now 911 Troof seems unable to accept how enmeshed it has become with fascism. A lot of evidence says 911 Troof was a fascist product from the start anyway.
And Alex Jones sells more videos and annual subscriptions? Qui Bono?
Alex Jones sells videos and dangerous paranoid pap employing vague euphemisms about "globalists", "satanists" and the "enemy within" etc etc. They all correspond to time-worn anti-semitic euphemism. His stand for liberty is a sham: he lusts after an Israeli-type security-wall across Mexico.
Jones works with Rivero. Whilst Rivero promotes racists, and fascists - and deceives his audience by failing to tell them he is directing them to genuine, organised fascism. Rivero supports holocaust denial, trotting out the usual thoroughly debunked denial bullshit - he reports from genuine fascist organised conferences whilst omitting the real organisers political ideology etc etc. But he will claim Israel is fascist. OK - but if Israel state action should be denounced for being "like fascists" - shouldn't real fascists (Rivero's friends) be denounced and exposed too?
This behaviour (and more) can only be explained by understanding 911 Troof is deeply compromised with genuine fascism.
Thursday, 25 June 2009
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17 comments:
Why don't you provide a link to mmy blog for your readers? Are you scared?
scared of what?
Great post, TLNL. I love that you have made all these various connections. I am also very concered how right wing memes find their way into the so-called progressive blogosphere. It simply makes no sense.
There are Israeli apologists who astroturf at Maryscott O'Connor's MyLeftWing. They love to point out the same things you have about anti-Jewish rhetoric contaminating the left-o-sphere. However, they never mention how such bile has its antecedents in the right wing. Yet, because the stuff we have been on about the last few years is on the money, I have seen a few disingenuous posters start to acknowledge such truths. I guess that is sort of progress. Yet, those moments are few and far between, and usually are posted in regards to someone like Hal Turner, a buddy of right wing Fox News personality Sean Hannity. I believe they have stolen our memes simply to continue the ratcheting up of divide and conquer between right and left. The true left is nowhere to be found on the big outlets. When someone like Obama is seen as a socialist by the right and a progressive by the so-called left, one must realise that what we are on about concerning right woos left is fact.
In regards to 911, it is truly a shame. There should be a 911 Truth movement to be distinguished from the "Troof" movement.
As for Curtis Maynard, I think this dude scours search engines to find any comment on himself and makes sure to drop comments at such places. I wouldn't link to him. If this was my place, I wouldn't even allow him to post here. He is a small potato. He is the poor nazi's Hal Turner. Yet, he is a great example to use when letting the world know exactly what Michael Rivero represents. I also think you should keep plugging away at tying Alex Jones to Rivero and other right wing bigots. It is beyond debate that Rivero is insidious. It's actually the same with Jones. But I don't think most people would consider Alex Jones a Jew hater. The more people who understand who exactly Jones is tied to the hip the better. Maynard is who he is. Once someone even reads a bit of his rants, that should be enough. Unless he turns the corner like a few bigots have and repents for his ugly hatred, I look at him as being a form of spam. Yet, it is a beautiful thing that Rivero links to him. Now one should have no doubts about how vile Rivero is. My question is whether these people are simply out to make a buck, or if they are the proverbial disinfo agents. I mean, Michael Rivero can't write. He comes up with outlandish conspiracy theories. He has no qualms about being linked to neo-nazis. It feels to me like he is part of some kind of disinfo racket.
Hmmm, and we wondered why a worthless piece of scum like you was posting on prison planet. An avowed fan of 1984 trying to lump the 911 movement to the far right and anti-semitism. Son, I have forgotten more about the history of the world than you will ever know, your a joke and a disinfo agent.
If you fail to realize that there is more than meets the eye going on behind the walls of the U.S. and world governments there is nothing I can do for you, you will be forever hoplessly lost by your mind numbing ignorance, attempting to set up those who stand for true FREEDOM and EQUALITY as nothing more than racist! That's a bit vague and a huge assumption. Your an idiot. End of story.
Well said Bishops this guy just wishes he was as big as Alex. I am rigt in the middle of the truth movement mate NOT YOU and can categorically say that it has not been infiltrated by anyone. I would love to be a fly on the wall when your getting raped in the fema camp with your eyes bulging and your head saying "but i helped you i'm on your side" before the government agent whos been using you fires a bullet into the back of your head. I would pay anything to be there at that moment. And not just you but all the other bullied at school pin dick disinfo agents too.
"Your an idiot"
The first wingnut doesn't even know how to spell. The second one goes with the homophobia and calls tlnl a disinfo agent. That's like Michael Rivero talking about cointelpro yet not explaining why he was working for the largest military contractor in the early 90s.
Socrates,
perhaps I don't know how to spell, but you get the fucking point idiot. The revolution is coming motherfucker and you will be staring down the barrel from one side or the other. Deal with it, it isn't about racism it's about the lies that you and your little friends have bought into. Using Marley as an icon for you idealism shows you ignorance of what even he stood for.
By the way Socrates what exactly are you identifying as homophobic in the second post? The rape description? Perhaps you haven't been paying attention to what has happened at Abbu Ghirab.
You guys are a joke and you know it.
And by the way I don't find "wingnut" to be a insult, if it comes right down to it I'll tighten that wingnut down on you so you have to see the truth.
What have you ever done in your life? What are your accomplishments? Zero. Nothing.
I heard the original nazis suffered from latent homosexuality like these mysoginist freeper trolls, and there is something wrong with that. These guys reek of being paid to post. Their promotion of racists and right wingers such as Maynard, Carto, Rivero and Jones tells me that in all probability these are the proverbial spooks. If someone was a real 911 amateur investigator, they wouldn't be trolling this forum. This was a great entry by the_last_name_left. Maybe if these dudes are sincere in their tinfoil, they can ask Michael Rivero why he has been covering up his work for McDonnell Douglas. Last_Name, you should start deleting the trolls. They aren't here to communicate. They are here to spread hate and confusion. Why they hate the female spirit so much, God only knows.
Hi Socrates. Thanks for your posts.
I see you've met the goons. :)
Aren't they delightful?
One is a contributor to Prisonplanet: a real hardcore twit.
He had an article up at prisonplanet which sought to suggest Alex Jones' views were totally different to those of Poplawski, the 3 time cop-killer, anti-semite, stormfront member, whom just happened to believe in a world (jewish) conspiracy, and just so happened to be into Alex Jones.
The article was obviously meant to put some distance between them......Alex and Poplawski. The writer, and Prisonplanet struggle to maintain that Poplawski "opposed" Alex Jones' views - when there's nothing to suggest it at all - quite the opposite. They all share much the same beliefs.......the proof is that we already know them without being told and could probably have written a list of common factors beforehand. Hey - just like the DHS report on far-right extremism said when it was published.
The article, also at PP, is here at the author's site:
http://realtruthonline.blogspot.com/2009/07/liberal-journalist-continues-parroting.html
Check the comments? I had a few comments deleted.......by the freedom lovin' nutter. :D
RICK:I would love to be a fly on the wall when your getting raped.....
I bet you would. Weirdo.
These could all be regulat guys. There are wingnuts in the general population. I'm not saying everyone is a paid fake.
I think we are trolled on, because we do point out the connections. There is no separation between Rivero, Rense, Jones, Tinoire, Maynard, and many others. You'd think if these two guys showing up wanted to get some good points across, they'd at least without any reservation disavow themselves from Maynard. Alex Jones himself cannot be unaware of Rivero's ties to neonazis. So why does he associate with him at all? It's like you say how some folks are all Mr. Liberty Patriot, but when the fascism is right in their faces, all one hears is the sound of crickets chirping.
Even in our small pond ways, we separate from one another when we feel it is appropriate. You don't believe in my weather modification angle, and that's fine. I didn't buy into my ex-moderator's claims of a moon landing hoax, his denial of man-made global warming, or his claim that the numbers of Jews killed in the Holocaust may have been much less, like two million or whatever he was talking about. One needs to make distinctions. If Alex Jones wants to be taken with any smidgen of credibility, he needs to completely disassociate himself from the "Joos Did It While Owning the Banks and Hollywood" crowd. He doesn't. So he is stuck in bed with neonazis. Tinoire is tight with Rivero. Thus, she has zero credibility to claim that she is on the left. That's where the damage gets done. It's fairly clear that Rivero and Jones are wingnuts. But then you have lefties on the surface like Tinoire, Jeff Wells of Rigorous Intuition, and Brad Friedman of BradBlog making the Jew hate crowd seem to be also entrenched on the left. It isn't. Most people love Jews, as most people love everyone regardless of race, creed, or colour. And that is a lefty, peacenik value. Hey- you have to use html for your links, or they get cut off.
Yeah, it's quite remarkable how little there is on the 'net about it all. It makes me wonder how much effort the Scaife and Orlin foundations are expending on this whole project - and if it is all essentially one vast project.
All the kookie adverts that seem to appear on all of these websites.......I wonder if they're genuine businesses.....or fronts to donate funds, posing as "advertising revenue". I feel certain some of them are....though I've no proof. Prisonplanet looks like ebay or Walmart for weirdos. Do people really buy enough of that shit to keep those businesses going, AND to pay for all the adverts? I find it hard to believe - as will anyone else whom has tried to run a business imo.
And you're right - it's critical to note that people like Alex Jones simply cannot be unaware of the connections to fascism of some of the people around him.
For Jones and co to claim there's no left/right divide when they're directly acquainted with agents of fascism is a massive indictment. It's a simply disgraceful obfuscation - and serves nothing except fascism. That's true whether they are conscious of their deceit, or not.
And that's why it is so important that they take steps to distance themselves from fascism - not just from the occasional mad kook whom guns people down at the Holocaust Museum.
But they don't do it - nor will they - because they have no intention of doing so.
How difficult, or unwelcome would denunciation of nazism, racism and ultra-nationalism be? So why not do it? Because they refuse to - because they have no intention of doing so. Our basic thesis is proven right - they're working for the far-right/fascism.
On the other hand, I accept "the left" has issues with anti-semitism too. It's of a wholly different degree to that of the far-right.....where the anti-semitism is most violent and ideological. The left sees Israel (and hence 'the jewish state') as being a privileged lap-dog to american imperialism, and that provides an avenue for (mostly unconscious) anti-semitism.
I see this reflected in the coverage of Israel/Palestine: look at the extent of the coverage compared to say, Sri Lanka, or Turkey. Look at the outrage generated by Israeli military activity compared to Sri Lanka, Turkey, UK, USA, Russia, China, whatever. Hard to accept there's no anti-semitism operating there, even though probably american (and western) empire is decisive factor in determining "importance" of Israel over Sri Lanka.
On Jeff Wells and RigInt -
Jeff Wells seems fairly set against anti-semitism and racism imo. But he's into this "deep-state" stuff, which seems to me to be just an extension of the "there's no left/right" thing.....
Also, it's basically Hitler's "jewish world conspiracy" with the jews left out. Another term would be "NWO", I suppose. So, whilst Wells might appear to stamp-down on the most blatant anti-semitism, the vague notion of a "world conspiracy" aka NWO aka "deep-state actors" ALLOWS a cloaked sort of anti-semitism, through the usual avenues of attacking "bankers, heads of industry, politicians" etc. - exactly the same spiel as Alex Jones.
See, RigInt claims to be an anti-fascist board - but last time I looked there's been one post on fascism in a year - and that was by me (before i was banned - for being you, I think :D) and it received no responses. How is that an anti-fascist board? Doesn't make sense.
So while there's no anti-fascism, there's the same old Alex Jones stylee fingering of bankers, elites, military-industrial complex, etc etc with no effort at making a class analysis. Like Sign of the Times - likewise, ostensibly opposed to anti-semitism and racism, but convinced that psychosis is the cause, not class. Ponerology they call it? Hmmm. New-age bullshit I call it, to avoid making a class analysis. They're "evil" - that's their explanation. Hmmm. How vacuous?
So, I don't know about RigInt - or SOTT for that matter. I do see them as functioning as a distraction - a move away from class analysis and economic analysis (materialism) - which can't really serve to benefit the left/socialism.
And they do end up saying much the same thing as Alex Jones does - despite the fact they mock Alex Jones.
And one thing about RigInt - they banned me seemingly because "they'd come across me before"......they insinuated I'd been "a problem" before somehow.....
Because of Tinoire/PI banning me? Because they thought I was you.....
If true then it suggests they're probably sharing information.....which to a point must be illegal, based on privacy laws etc? Legality aside - the sharing of information would be much more interesting if true.....what with PI/Tinoire being so chummy with Rivero and all. And with their ownership and financing being such a secret......
Funny - none of these places are especially open about their ownership, or their political views, are they? They're all fucking GODADDY proxy registrar-ed too. How do we know Scaife and Orlin aren't financing all of them? It isn't as if they're ignorant of the power and subversion of think-tanks and corporate funded front-organisations.
Hey, I just noticed it says "Larry Simons is a twat" above the posting box. What's up with that?
It's good to see you powering out prose all over this blog. It could take me a while to return the offer, but I'll do my best.
It could take time to make more sense of our common interests. I never heard of you until the WRH unofficial thing, when somehow we were turned into the same person. I have been smeared now for over two years. It's been a long time since myself, a nobody, has been astroturfed as having all these various sock puppets. I think part of the disinfo scam is to ensure that like-minded folks don't associate or worst case scenario, that we are smeared and pushed into the smallest ponds. The bad guys work to make the like-minded distrust one another.
I also noticed the same kooky ads directing folks to so-called alternative websites. Yes, they all ask for donations. Many of them are very splashy productions. They reek of having some sort of outside funding where the donations and ads presented don't seem to be the true objective of the domains. Sure it is near impossible to prove these are disinfo agents. But if it looks, quacks, and walks like a duck, then ramblings about astroturfing disinfo might be spot on.
I kind of disagree with you on Israel. The Middle East is a crucial geographical powder keg. Israel has been one of the main appendages to the US, kind of similar to how Cuba used to run with the Soviet Union. I do see your point about so-called lefties and progressives ignoring many other global situations. I just blogged at my place about how the US is now putting more pressure on Israel to do the right thing. Israel is gonna get rid of 23 settlements in the West Bank. GW Bush pretty much gave Israel the go ahead to do what they want, and Israel-Palestine relations did get worse during the last administration.
On RigInt, etc.. There is something real shady about it. I was aware of your good point about the lack of posts made there on fascism. Yes, you were banned from there for allegedly being me. Tinoire got her start with Jeff Wells. Small world, or fake small world?
A few years back I was banned from RigInt without making even one post. They are sharing info. Jeff Wells had a disinfo moderator named et in Arcadia Ego who used to run with the "chemtrail" crowd. I didn't even make one post yet was deleted. They even made it so I couldn't view the forum. That's because back then I used to critique RigInt pretty good.
When I was at Tinoire's PI, things were going fairly well. I assumed it was a lefty refuge. I didn't know anything about them that I now do. Basically I wrote a post pointing out that someone named Virgil used a historical putdown of Jewish people. He used the term Jewboy. Tinoire said I lied. But they had a nemesis forum called prosemite undercover which witnessed the whole thing. They found the proof that I hadn't lied. I went on to go after Tinoire. She is close to Rivero and Jeff Wells. The connections that can be found aren't tough but they are hidden unless one even has an inkling to seek them out. I even tied Tinoire to the Speedway Bomber's and Bradblog's Velvet Revolution. Tinoire deleted every post I made there. I think she is a spook. I think all of these buggers are. There are just too many contradictions. E.G., Tinoire never should have pimped for Ron Paul. She never should have posed with Paul Wolfowitz. She shouldn't be so close to Michael Rivero. She's supposed to be a lefty.
There are explanations for what we have both experienced. I believe we are on the right track. Otherwise, why all the convoluted attention and schemes to make us appear as blog wreckers and multi-personality trolls?
{contd.}
No one except the few have done this type of work that we have. SOTT is run by a disinfo kook. There is a lot of dirt on them also. I wish I could post more, but it is getting late. I tied Jeff Wells and many others together, folks you probably have never heard of, like Andy Stephenson. A lot of the fake progressives have been involved with the "Election Integrity" movement. One dude named Steven Hertzberg, wow, he was a major blogger for Fintan Dunne who eventually set up Ron Paul websites. He also rambled on about Ponerology or whatever it's called. He came up with something called full spectrum liberty, a goofy variation on a Rumsfeld phrase. I think I nailed internet fakery, and that's why I got my arse cybersmeared and trolled. Then when we crossed paths and got some good stuff cooking on WRH at my forum, the bad guys took it up a notch. Hey, maybe it was for the best that we split up for a while, because that gave us the space to let things cook a bit. Then when the fockers came out with the goofy angle that we are the same person, it allowed each of us to see that we were ultimately on the same side in regards to insidious astroturfing and disinfo. Thus any disagreement on "weather modification" was rendered moot.
S: A few years back I was banned from RigInt without making even one post.
HAHA - that's hilarious. That has to be the best one yet. haha that's so funny.
I have to shoot, travelling all day today, but briefly, I'm not sure what we disagree about over Israel. Whatever it is, at least we don't have crap like "fucking joooos" to get past. God, I am so tired of reading stuff like that. I hate dealing with Israel - just as I hate dealing with any religious stuff. It's so dreary. If it weren't considered so important by everyone, I would have remained blissfully ignorant. I still am, really, i suppose.
I don't know much at all about any of the people you mention - it would be good if you could tie it all up concisely......i sometimes found it hard to follow your threads with postings from other forum. I know it is very hard to do, but it's perhaps important to do? It's hard to communicate a web of contacts, and what it suggests about the people involved and what they're really doing, isn't it?
I do think we need to make a really solid and clear picture of all these connections. That's going to be very difficult - to get the solidity and clarity imo.
RASTA don't work for no CIA
:D
I agree we probably don't disagree that much on Israel. Just because we are slamming the neonazi disinformation from the ilks of Carto and Rivero doesn't mean we are supporting the Palestinians getting a raw deal.
In regards to not being better organised with the cybersleuthing, I never expected to become so isolated. Nor did I ever imagine the magnitude of the the disinformation.
I think we have been able to make some progress lately with our communications, because we both understand Rivero, Carto, and their influence. We are able to start with a common starting point. We both experienced the same deal with Rigorous Intuition and Progressive Independent. We were both victimised by the same exact cybersmear of us being one person with 19 personalities. Yes, I certainly was banned without making a post. That proves that insider information across blogs was being exchanged. That Tinoire would come out with the same exact nonsense, as I have linked to in one of your more recent entries, shows how Tinoire and Jeff Wells are tied in with the crowd circulating the chemtrail disinfo. So the cybersmear script started out of the chemmies, RigInt, and Tinoire, but then it proceeded over to the WRH Unofficial forum. And this is how I started to doubt you. I too had looked into Go Daddy. I didn't know who you were. I got led into the fire by may41970. Maybe he was a patsy or maybe he is part of it. I started to trust you once you fought back against my distrust of you and pointed out your work at Trausti's forum. Then I started to see how we had a lot in common. Then we came up with some good stuff together at my place. It is what it is. I do feel alone. Sometimes I do feel very bitter about being slandered and cyberstalked. But I am doing better now and holding my chin up. I've made a few friends through blogging. For the most part, however, it has been a very existential experience. I saw what happened to you at RigInt. You did nothing wrong to be banned. And RigInt is much more anti-semitic than they carry themselves as being. I think the role of RigInt and PI was to make the left appear anti-semitic. They picked the wrong nobodies to mess with. I am biased of course, but I believe we have shown both of them to be some form of internet cointelpro. Tinoire and Jeff Wells were big players at Democratic Underground. But right now, they are mere shells of what they used to be. I think it was ourselves who exposed them. I do think we have done incredible work, even as just hobbyists who cybersleuthed.
A lot of the disinfo has centered on election fraud, specifically with the concept of black box voting. The connections I made were similar to the types you have made in your specialised area. Basically, I can tie Jeff Wells and Tinoire, who are tied to Rivero types with these others who have dominated the major, more respected American forums such as Democratic Underground and Daily Kos. I can also show how the moderating has been rigged at all the places. Maybe we just need to relax, breathe in and out, and keep doing what we do, and certainly we should be able to improve with clarity. When we are isolated like this, perhaps we underestimate how effective we have been. I hear you also on the time constrictions. No way can I devote as much time to this stuff anymore as I have in the past. But that's good too. Now it is more about tying together the loose ends and perhaps finding ways to ensure that the pockets of awareness not only survive but flourish.
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